Ladakh Flash Point

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reservior dogs

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But they aren't qualitatively valuable. Qualitatively valuable assets are minorities which hold significant sway within the Indian social political and economic pyramid. Minorities that doesn't hold such sway are therefore only a distraction or nuisance.

Take the case of China -
Tibetans and Uyghurs are qualitatively inferior ( by the definition above). Hong Kong separatists/secessionists are qualitatively more valuable. Same for pro-dem forces within Mainland China.

One has to identify the forces at play within the Economic and Sociopolitical Temple of India and then structure the penetration. Caste System is one thing. Regionalism is another. Partisanship is yet another one.
That is only true if you are looking for social protests etc. If you are recruiting someone to blow something up, it could be anyone with enough anger at the system.
 

hkky

New Member
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I think sinosoldier should quite while he's BEHIND! Lol
I think Sinosoldier brings a balance to the discussion. The opinions expressed in the forum is overwhelmingly lopsided with regard to Indian's lack of capability and competency. Having confidence is a must but over confidence is a cause of failure and I hope the Chinese military do not have this attitude. Granted the Indian government/military do not have a good track record and its easy to dismiss a lot of things, but one can never preclude the unknown.
 

siegecrossbow

General
Staff member
Super Moderator
I think Sinosoldier brings a balance to the discussion. The opinions expressed in the forum is overwhelmingly lopsided with regard to Indian's lack of capability and competency. Having confidence is a must but over confidence is a cause of failure and I hope the Chinese military do not have this attitude. Granted the Indian government/military do not have a good track record and its easy to dismiss a lot of things, but one can never preclude the unknown.

We are just amateur forum goers here. Rest assured the Chinese military takes India very seriously. Here is a nice analysis of Indian armor combat by a former PLA general.

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He basically asserts that India should not be under estimated since only Indians have combat experience with armored infantry at high altitude comparable to Sino-Indian borders.
 

Sardaukar20

Captain
Registered Member
Given the deployment of PLAAF assets to the region I feel that I'm not the only one getting a whiff of what the IAF might bring to the tablet. Both India and China have ballistic missile defenses capable of providing either country with a bit of warning. Same cannot be said of the stealthy Storm Shadows that IAF Rafales can simply release into the mountain ranges. Allowing the Rafale to carry the missile provides the IAF with an additional layer of flexibility and air-to-air confidence that aren't afforded to the PLAAF by their H-6Ks.

What the PLAAF really lacks, from their standpoint, is a versatile 500-km-range ALCM that could be carried by their J-10C or J-16. Glide bombs have limited range and nowhere near the reach required to attack Ambala or other IAF bases.

Nevertheless, the other point of my previous post is that the PLAAF has deployed mostly air-to-air assets, which speaks to the likelihood that the PLAAF is expecting aircraft to play a more defensive than CAS role.

Well it seems that you are arguing for The Storm shadow ALCM (aka SCALP EG in French service). Yes it is a formidable 500km ranged ALCM. But don't China already have the CJ series functioning as ALCMs when carried by the H-6Ks? They do have at least a 1000km range advantage over the Storm Shadow. So they can be launched by the less stealthy H-6 bombers well beyond the ranges of any Indian radar, air defences, and fighters.

You must not forget what the Storm Shadow actually is. Its France's own version of a Tomahawk. And since France has no history of launching super long ranges LACM from any naval or land assets, they choose air platforms. But France doesn't have large strategic bombers like US, Russia, or China. So they developed the Storm Shadow, possibly one of the world's smallest LACMs, to fit into their Rafales. Since India doesn't have strategic bombers and its own long ranged LACM, the Storm Shadow is a stop gap solution.

China follows the US and Russian doctrine of firing long ranged LACM from strategic bombers faraway from enemy defences. Because they can. Its tried and tested. So far I haven't heard any military analyst claiming that a Rafale launching a Storm Shadow is better than a Tu-160 launching a Kh-101.

You don't need a Iraq-esque cruise missile saturation attack to knock out an airbase. A few pinpoint strikes near runway confluences and/or submunition attacks would suffice in taking the PLAAF out of the equation, at least for several hours. And I doubt that HQ-9s and HQ-16s will be all that effective in curbing low-flying terrain-hugging cruise missiles. They're also stealthier than the hunky Tomahawks and CJ-10s that the Americans/Chinese use.

I'm not sure if HQ-17s are deployed amongst Chinese forces near India.

I don't think a potential border skirmish will escalate to the point where both countries are lobbing missiles at each other's cities. But the Chinese government and its people need to understand that fighting India in 2020 would not be like 1962.

Well as I have said earlier. The Storm Shadows have been taken out in combat by antiquated S-125 SAMs in Syria. Their stealth is overrated. Old Russian radars could see and engage them. The Chinese HQ radars and missiles are more than capable of shooting these missiles down.

On top of that. China does use a number of short ranged air defence systems like: Sky Dragon 12, Tor missiles, Crotale, Oerlikon GDF with Chinese upgraded 'Sky Guard' systems, and SPAAA systems. The PLA have more layers of defence against incoming missiles than India.

China and its people know that they are not fighting India of 1962. What do you think all that air defence deployments and drills are for?

The real question you should be asking is. Does India and its people know that fighting China today is not like fighting them in 1962? India have been doing a lot of boasting like they are the only ones who are fighting modern warfare. It almost seems like China in their minds are still the Mao era Red Guards, running around armed with: Type 56 rifles, Type 59 tanks, manual targeting AAA, S-75 SAMs, Mig 19s, and Mig 21s. Becareful not to get too caught up into their 'Jai Hind' propaganda BS.
 
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Mohsin77

Senior Member
Registered Member
There are also other Muslims throughout India......... if the government is openly hostile to one, there will be some of that group which will be radicalized.
If you are recruiting someone to blow something up, it could be anyone with enough anger at the system.

FYI: Avoid this tactic. It doesn't end well. (Trust me.)

If you wanna recruit someone, recruit the businessmen and industrialists in Mumbai and Calcutta etc. If their interests shift, they can influence politics and media in a way to begin splitting India without firing a shot.
 

EblisTx

Junior Member
We are just amateur forum goers here. Rest assured the Chinese military takes India very seriously. Here is a nice analysis of Indian armor combat by a former PLA general.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

He basically asserts that India should not be under estimated since only Indians have combat experience with armored infantry at high altitude comparable to Sino-Indian borders.
In the end, he did mention that he had full confidence in PLA deployed there.
 

Hendrik_2000

Lieutenant General
Well not only did PLA soldier have warm barrack to sleep and plenty of food in canteen They also provided with ration at the field by UAV wow

PLA drones deliver food to the soldiers on the Chinese Indian border over 4500m above the sea level. Tens of thousands PLA troops are massing on the China Indian border in recent weeks

 

MrCrazyBoyRavi

Junior Member
Registered Member
lol if you guys saw Indians spamming the r/militaryporn subreddit. I feel pity to the indian users who wants validation and assurance that they belong with west and western people love indian 3rd grade shit.
 

hkky

New Member
Registered Member
Bringing opposing views is only valuable when you bring statements based on at least some kind of facts. Thinking 5 Rafales will somehow manage to shutdown Chinese airbases in range of LAC is not based on any.
I agree 5 planes are not going to make a difference in the overall scheme of things, but I was thinking of the general discussion. Most of the comments would lead one to believe it would be an easy and assured victory for the PLA, but a war in a complex terrain/environment would not as predictable as for example the invasion of Iraq. You can compare system by system, but at the end of the day you have to physically evict people. During the Balkan conflict, NATO had total air superiority and dropped loads of bombs. As I recall, the ground forces stayed pretty much intact. I don't know if the Indian have the stuff PLA displayed in the Korean War, but it's an example of an unexpected outcome by logic displayed here.
 
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