Hong-Kong Protests

[Gatekeeper]

In short, autonomy for you means wholely the right to commit treason and secession without consequences. You should check which government in the world allows that and ask yourself why China should be the exception.

Not sure if you are pretending to be naive or simply too oblivious to your own double standard worldview.

Some would say, if we are kind. We would put it down to ignorance or naivety. But if we are truthful, it is hypocrisy at it's best!

It is unbelievable that our friend from the A-Team still live in his alternate universe.

In his previous post, he said as much that:

"You Can have as much freedom and democracy to practice and voice your independence values, so just as long as the AUTHORITIES gets the FINAL say in granting them."!

Democracy at work in his make-believe world!

The killer punch here is, if that was coming from a Chinese spokesperson or any "pro-chinese" members here, he will be the first to say how undemocratic and draconian this is and it's typical of Xi and his irks.

Where's the critical thinking? And he's got the cheek to say Chinese students don't have the abilities to critically thinking!

 

[zgx09t]

Bad ideas being implemented are no longer far fetched
The world is more dangerous now than ever

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Not arguing the fact that currently kakistocracy is fully in place in the land of cotton and segregation.
But from a normal common sense point of view, it's convertibility that matters, not the damn peg.
A peg or a currency system can evolve or morph into something else totally, as long as convertibility is there, who cares.

It's quite funny and ironic that it was communist old guards who understood how finance works.
When everybody was, is and will be keeping a hawk eye on one country two systems, the real original aim was one country two currencies.

As long as HKD has convertibility, all's good.

 

[hullopilllw]

It's not just Spain that allows open talk of regional independence. In the UK its legal for a person to say their city or region should be independent, and there are "localist" or independence seeking political parties (the Scottish Nationalist Party has actually been the Scottish executive for several years). Canada has allowed Quebec two independence referenda, and Quebec is governed by a nationalist (pro-Quebec independence) party. Germany has the Bavaria Party, albeit it has little support. There have been discussions in Texas on secession, albeit without anywhere near majority support in polls, and organistions like the Texas Nationalist Movement. All the above is perfectly legal in those countries.

The concept I think you're having difficulty with is separating the opinions or campaigning of individuals and groups, in contrast to regional governments making unilateral declarations of independence that they're not entitled to. The former is little threat to the territorial integrity of a country because it still allows the national government to decide what steps, if any, to take next. Whereas the latter is an immediate threat because if action is not taken by the central government, that territory may become de-facto independent.

No one is suggesting that if the Chief Executive in HK made a UDI, the CCP could not take action. But that isn't what's happened in HK - not even close.

No no, there isnt any lack of understanding on my part. Intent has always been what the Chinese stress on. All the so called independence movements you mentioned from the western hemisphere has no foreign backing and thus its all talk with no eventual result. The hongkong independence movement, on the other hand, is openly backed by US Congress funded NGOS to destabilise China, with dissidents being summoned to Congress hearing implying US has more juridical power over HK than PRC. JW and fellow movement members flown to taiwan island for training on how to stage riots. NGOs funding bails for rioters caught setting shops on fire, littering hazardous objects on rail of hsr.

Or is it better to pretend none of those is true?

Do you really think Western politicians care about the voice of the average Pestinians ? But the concern, including yours for hk rioters, are genuine ?

 

[Tam]

Not arguing the fact that currently kakistocracy is fully in place in the land of cotton and segregation.
But from a normal common sense point of view, it's convertibility that matters, not the damn peg.
A peg or a currency system can evolve or morph into something else totally, as long as convertibility is there, who cares.

It's quite funny and ironic that it was communist old guards who understood how finance works.
When everybody was, is and will be keeping a hawk eye on one country two systems, the real original aim was one country two currencies.

As long as HKD has convertibility, all's good.

This is a good watch why depegging from the US dollar can't happen. Those that tried to do so before and now, Soros, Kyle Bass, etc,. simply don't have the financial firepower. Maybe Soros brought the Bank of England to its knees, but he failed to do so against Hong Kong. Video explains the mechanics.

Indeed ironic, its the "communists" who knows how the capitalist finance system works.

 

[hullopilllw]

The Chinese is quite far ahead when it coming to thinking, which is why their statements are sometimes vague for those that like to play technical terms : As long as you have no intent to push for separatism, or to commit treasin, then there is nothing to fear.


That message is clear; you can talk shit or scold the gov, so long as your action have no real substance of actual working towards seperatism, whatever you say wont be of concern to the implemented security law.

UNLESS you have a motive. The chinese saying 做贼心虚 explain why some are running off the nations that are backing the seprarist movement in hongkong.

 

[10thman]

Simple eye-opening facts and video

Not arguing the fact that currently kakistocracy is fully in place in the land of cotton and segregation.
But from a normal common sense point of view, it's convertibility that matters, not the damn peg.
A peg or a currency system can evolve or morph into something else totally, as long as convertibility is there, who cares.

It's quite funny and ironic that it was communist old guards who understood how finance works.
When everybody was, is and will be keeping a hawk eye on one country two systems, the real original aim was one country two currencies.

As long as HKD has convertibility, all's good.

This is a good watch why depegging from the US dollar can't happen. Those that tried to do so before and now, Soros, Kyle Bass, etc,. simply don't have the financial firepower. Maybe Soros brought the Bank of England to its knees, but he failed to do so against Hong Kong. Video explains the mechanics.

Indeed ironic, its the "communists" who knows how the capitalist finance system works.

 

[localizer]

 

[Mr T]

No no, there isnt any lack of understanding on my part. Intent has always been what the Chinese stress on.

Look, you were the one that brought in how other countries have dealt with independence movements using classic whatabout-tactics. It's not my fault that you didn't understand the reality of the situation in the country you first mentioned - Spain - given that it hasn't banned the independence movement, just stopped it unilaterally declaring independence. You then tried to complain that China was being asked to do something that no one else would do, and I again pointed out that there are various countries that not just live with independence movements but have given them legal referenda that (if they had been successful) would have given them independence.

If you want to say "China is doing what it thinks is best", fine. But don't try to pretend it's acting as everyone else would.

All the so called independence movements you mentioned from the western hemisphere has no foreign backing and thus its all talk with no eventual result.

You honestly think that Quebec and Scotland having three legal referenda between them, which would have been respected by the national governments and therefore led to independence, is just "talk with no eventual result"? The 1995 Quebec referendum only just failed with over 49% of people voting for independence. About 50,000 votes made the difference.

The hongkong independence movement, on the other hand, is openly backed by US Congress funded NGOS to destabilise China

Funding given to the independence movement wasn't necessarily about mainland China. But even if it was, independence political parties are now banned. There's no need to criminalise private citizens making statements about independence if they have no pro-independence parties to vote for.

with dissidents being summoned to Congress hearing implying US has more juridical power over HK than PRC

If they're US residents, then yes they can be summoned to Congress. The same would be the case in the UK for Westminster and probably any country where the legislative can call witnesses.

As for people resident outside of the US, it's up to them if they attend or not. China isn't going to allow the FBI to pick up local residents if they don't want to travel to Washington. If any HK residents have testified in Congress it's because they want to draw attention to an issue like whether the CCP has been interfering in HK's autonomy. That seems understandable.

Are you sure you're not sore about the fact that HK/Chinese citizens wanted to go to testify in Congress?

JW and fellow movement members flown to taiwan island for training on how to stage riots

You don't need training on how to riot. Chinese people have rioted on the mainland in the past, such as due to Japanese foreign policy. Did they need to be trained by the PLA first, or did they just start smashing stuff up? It was the latter.

Equally, if some HK protesters got training on ways they can protest more effectively (including disrupting HK's infrastructure), that has nothing to do with censoring the views of private HK citizens. It might be a reason to ban travel to Taiwan, but not censoring verbal arguments.

NGOs funding bails for rioters caught setting shops on fire, littering hazardous objects on rail of hsr.

I'm not sure I understand. Are you suggesting bail should be set at a rate the accused is unable to pay? In that case bail might as well be refused.

 

[ZeEa5KPul]

If you want to say "China is doing what it thinks is best", fine. But don't try to pretend it's acting as everyone else would.

You know, this might be the first thing you've written that I actually agree with. If countries like Canada and Britain are so weak that they'd allow parts of them to split off just because 50% + 1 of people living there want to, then they shouldn't be compared to China at all. It doesn't matter if every single Hong Konger without exception wants independence from China, they aren't going to get it.

Here I find myself in the very uncomfortable position of admiring America. Not that long ago a large part of America also wanted independence, and the response was a bloodbath. Sadly for America, as is its wont, it left the job half-finished instead of driving into southerners' heads for generation after generation that they are a conquered people. Who gives a conquered people representation in government?

 

[AndrewS]

Here I find myself in the very uncomfortable position of admiring America. Not that long ago a large part of America also wanted independence, and the response was a bloodbath. Sadly for America, as is its wont, it left the job half-finished instead of driving into southerners' heads for generation after generation that they are a conquered people. Who gives a conquered people representation in government?

Are they a conquered people?

Or are they misguided citizens that need to be brought back into the fold?