Zhuhai Airshow 2016


plawolf

Brigadier
That article and attitude pretty much sums up the close-minded, willfully ignorant, entitled, superior and mutual back scratching, old-boys-club culture that permiates western military estblishements and the parasites housepets they keep, who are also known as defence correspondents.

By all means, not all defence correspondents are like that, but sadly the overwhelming majority fall into the above charactisation.

You can almost smell the sourness and raw hatred from that piece, and the core reason is summed up below.

One is that even to this day, Russian-made weapons are produced from design bureaus and military production plants that are well known to the international community. Which company makes air-launched weapons, which design office is responsible for certain types of radars—these are not deep, dark mysteries, as they are in the Middle Kingdom. Unlike any other event of its kind, Air Show China has become famous for the sudden and unexplained appearance of new weapons that have never been seen or heard of before. Where and when they were built is almost never clear.

What's more, in most cases, there is no one on-site at the show who will claim to work for the companies producing these weapons or be willing or able to say much about the item you are looking at and how it compares with other similar foreign products. On the odd occasion when someone is present as a representative of one of these Chinese arms-makers, they almost always claim to know nothing in detail about these systems being displayed. There is an atmosphere of deception and paranoia, with great effort taken to hide any and all information about the systems on display.
You see, companies like Janes pay a lot of money to send correspondents like the Dummy McDumbface here, who wrote that piece, to international defence shows, so they expect to get exclusives in return.

Underneath all the sourness and hate peddling, you can almost taste the desperation and fear from someone who knows they got absolutely nothing to present to his bosses to justify the big expenses bill he has ratcheted up.

If you apply the most rudimentary logic check, you can see that the above claim is grade 1 prime BS.

Why bother holding a defence show at all if China really was remotely as secretive and paranoid as he is trying to claim?

The truth is not that the Chinese are super secretive. The Chinese give out plenty of detailed information, they just don't waste their time talking to western defence correspondents like McDumbface here because the Chinese knows those people are bought and paid for by western defence companies.

Any information China gives to people like that will only be twisted to serve the interests of western defence firms, who treat western defence writers like royalty. Giving the, exclusive interviews while winning and dinning them at expensive restaurants.

At Chinese trade shows, buyers get special treatment and all the detailed info and sales pitches. Defence Correspondents from the west, who not only have zero contracts, but are also likely on a 'black list' for all the crap they been writing about China, probably literally could not get the time of day from organisers.

That piece is so full of holes and logical fallacies you couldn't even use it as a fishing net to catch whales.

Just a few of the other most glaring errors and logic fails:
- that carrier shown being kill is not America, but Japanese.
- that carrier was killed by coastal defences. So who is really the aggressor in that scenario?
- have a delegation at the show means nothing. Not every delegation buys arms. I'm sure the Iranians at least were at several other major arms shows. Would anyone be moronic enough to make any crazy claims based merely on the presence of a foreign military delegation?
- not all the weapons displayed are operationally fielded by the PLA, or even finished products. Generally, equipment picked up by the PLA don't attend such shows except where they got special dispensation from the PLA. Most of the companies and weapons on show are ones that failed to attract official PLA backing, so are looking for international customers to fund development and production.

So it's not that the Chinese government is funding the development of 6 SAM systems of roughly the same performance. But rather there are 6 different companies with systems at varying stages of development making offering to anyone who wish to back their venture.

Most if not all of those SAM programmes will progress little or no further if they fail to attract any funding and/or orders. It's just capitalism at work.

Such a thing may seem shocking and alien to a western defence correspondent because special interests have completely captured western governments when it comes to defence.

Long gone are the days when western defence firms borne the risks and costs of failed weapons development offerings. Instead, in the west, pretty much the entirety of the costs and risks of new weapons development have been transferred over to the taxpayers. While western defence firms still gets to charge the taxpayer a whopping profit margin for weapons systems' whose development was already funded by the government and taxpayers.

This is why western defence firms, and their minions in the guise of western defence correspondents are so obsessed with bad mouthing China.

Not only are Chinese weapons increasingly able to go toe-to-toe with the best the west has to offer, China's competative and effective defence industry is a mortal threat to the exceptionally lucrative racket western defence firms have managed to create for themselves through the tool of legalised corruption in the form of political contributions.
 
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taxiya

Major
Registered Member
The August 1 team uses J10A but as Taxiya pointed out it may be fake news, lets hope it is.
You may have mistaken me with someone else?:) I don't remember claiming that crash as a fake news.

My last post in this thread was a reply to #269 which is about "copy", not about the crash incident.
 

delft

Brigadier
That article and attitude pretty much sums up the close-minded, willfully ignorant, entitled, superior and mutual back scratching, old-boys-club culture that permiates western military estblishements and the parasites housepets they keep, who are also known as defence correspondents.

By all means, not all defence correspondents are like that, but sadly the overwhelming majority fall into the above charactisation.

You can almost smell the sourness and raw hatred from that piece, and the core reason is summed up below.



You see, companies like Janes pay a lot of money to send correspondents like the Dummy McDumbface here, who wrote that piece, to international defence shows, so they expect to get exclusives in return.

Underneath all the sourness and hate peddling, you can almost taste the desperation and fear from someone who knows they got absolutely nothing to present to his bosses to justify the big expenses bill he has ratcheted up.

If you apply the most rudimentary logic check, you can see that the above claim is grade 1 prime BS.

Why bother holding a defence show at all if China really was remotely as secretive and paranoid as he is trying to claim?

The truth is not that the Chinese are super secretive. The Chinese give out plenty of detailed information, they just don't waste their time talking to western defence correspondents like McDumbface here because the Chinese knows those people are bought and paid for by western defence companies.

Any information China gives to people like that will only be twisted to serve the interests of western defence firms, who treat western defence writers like royalty. Giving the, exclusive interviews while winning and dinning them at expensive restaurants.

At Chinese trade shows, buyers get special treatment and all the detailed info and sales pitches. Defence Correspondents from the west, who not only have zero contracts, but are also likely on a 'black list' for all the crap they been writing about China, probably literally could not get the time of day from organisers.

That piece is so full of holes and logical fallacies you couldn't even use it as a fishing net to catch whales.

Just a few of the other most glaring errors and logic fails:
- that carrier shown being kill is not America, but Japanese.
- that carrier was killed by coastal defences. So who is really the aggressor in that scenario?
- have a delegation at the show means nothing. Not every delegation buys arms. I'm sure the Iranians at least were at several other major arms shows. Would anyone be moronic enough to make any crazy claims based merely on the presence of a foreign military delegation?
- not all the weapons displayed are operationally fielded by the PLA, or even finished products. Generally, equipment picked up by the PLA don't attend such shows except where they got special dispensation from the PLA. Most of the companies and weapons on show are ones that failed to attract official PLA backing, so are looking for international customers to fund development and production.

So it's not that the Chinese government is funding the development of 6 SAM systems of roughly the same performance. But rather there are 6 different companies with systems at varying stages of development making offering to anyone who wish to back their venture.

Most if not all of those SAM programmes will progress little or no further if they fail to attract any funding and/or orders. It's just capitalism at work.

Such a thing may seem shocking and alien to a western defence correspondent because special interests have completely captured western governments when it comes to defence.

Long gone are the days when western defence firms borne the risks and costs of failed weapons development offerings. Instead, in the west, pretty much the entirety of the costs and risks of new weapons development have been transferred over to the taxpayers. While western defence firms still gets to charge the taxpayer a whopping profit margin for weapons systems' whose development was already funded by the government and taxpayers.

This is why western defence firms, and their minions in the guise of western defence correspondents are so obsessed with bad mouthing China.

Not only are Chinese weapons increasingly able to go toe-to-toe with the best the west has to offer, China's competative and effective defence industry is a mortal threat to the exceptionally lucrative racket western defence firms have managed to create for themselves through the tool of legalised corruption in the form of political contributions.
Let's compare the number of companies that produced aircraft that were used in the war against Vietnam ( And I'm sure I forgot some ):
Helicopters: Bell, Sikorsky, Vertol
Winged aircraft: Boeing, Cessna, Douglas, Fairchild, General Dynamics, Grumman, Lockheed, LTV, Martin, McDonnell, North American Aviation, Northrop, Republic
Now only Boeing and Lockeed Martin are producing manned combat aircraft.
In China AVIC is the owner of several aircraft factories that compete against each other to some extend for military orders so tat is not very different from the US situation. Apparently China has more competition for weapons orders than US, resembling the aircraft production situation of US half a century ago.
 

taxiya

Major
Registered Member
Some one is really scare and dumbfounded by the proliferation of Chinese SAM and other weapon. Reuben Johnson is one of the better Chinese weapon analyst from IHS
What you guy think?
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The Military-Industrial Party
China's mad, mega defense buildup.
Nov 21, 2016 | By
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....

During Air Show China, teams of procurement specialists from both Iran and North Korea could be seen in the exhibition halls vacuuming up every bit of information on weapons system design that they could find. Allegedly, the PRC is supposed to have embargoed North Korea from obtaining information that would aid its ballistic missile program. But like other Chinese commitments of this kind, this has turned out to be a joke. There was at least one six-man defense technology procurement team from Pyongyang at Zhuhai, scouring the halls where China's missile and space launch technology was on display.

The two countries' acquisition teams did not even try to hide their presence. The Iranian team appeared to have flown in on an Iranian Air Force Falcon 50 passenger jet that was parked out in the open on the tarmac next to several other aircraft that were there for a flying display. The North Korean team flashed their DPRK passports as they pushed through the crowds at the front gate to register on the expo's first day.

President Trump is clearly going to have to deal with a far more aggressive PRC, with an increasingly well-supplied military that is by all appearances begging for a fight. Conflicts in the South China Sea, the continued problems on the Korean peninsula, China's leader Xi Jinping being handed near-dictatorial powers—none of these bode well for a peaceful, cooperative future.

Reuben F. Johnson is a correspondent for IHS Jane's Information Group, a London-based defense and national security publishing house, and a frequent contributor to The Weekly Standard.
My thoughts:

Mr. Johnson needs re-educating himself. Iran and NK, or any other countries for that matter, does NOT need to hide their appearance outside of western countries. China has her own favorites just like the west does. Face it and suck it up as a man rather than being a crying baby.

You lay the mess, you clean it. Nobody is going to do it for you or back down from it.

Begging for a fight? Nothing new. If it happened 66 years ago it could happen again if push comes to shove. And a reminder to him, it is at the Chinese door-step, not some thousands kilometers away.
 

taxiya

Major
Registered Member
Most of the world's arms manufacturers [....] explain how the weapon is optimized to achieve its objective with the fewest possible casualties. Chinese weapons makers instead appear to be engaged in an endless process of multiplying the ways of indiscriminately killing and blowing up their enemies—real or imagined.
Really? And this guy writes for Janes? :rolleyes:
:DThe "funny" part. What else did he think something called weapon is made for? Pat the heads of enemies and send them home gently? P.S. I don't enjoy blowing up but better to have something in my hand than not.
 
Some one is really scare and dumbfounded by the proliferation of Chinese SAM and other weapon. Reuben Johnson is one of the better Chinese weapon analyst from IHS
What you guy think?
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
!

The Military-Industrial Party
China's mad, mega defense buildup.
Nov 21, 2016 | By
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
Calling this a China threat op-ed would give it too much credit, it is more of a rant a China hater would leave as a comment on an actual article about the Zhuhai show.
 

davidau

Junior Member
Registered Member
re # 148, # 149.......

AG 600 passed to the testing centre. First large amphibian vessel designed and built in
china......







AG600 "Dragon" amphibious aircraft with completely independent intellectual property rights, 37 m, wingspan, 38.8 meters 12.1 meters high, the maximum take-off weight of 53.5 tons, the maximum cruising speed of 500 km/h, the maximum endurance 12 hour, it can fly from Sanya, Hailan to South China Sea area without refuelling....



#206 davidau, Yesterday at 9:59 AM
 

advill

Junior Member
Zuhai Airshow is an ideal event for China to showcase its Chinese-built aircraft and related equipment. Countries world wide are always looking for competitive pricing and quality of aircraft etc. Even US Boeing would most likely listen to President-elect Trump who recently commented that the F-35 is very expensive, and its price should be reduced. In the final analysis, whether there are air shows in the US, EU, Asia and quite recently China, they are good for competition. Countries who are financially prudent have meaningful Budgets. This is especially so for developing nations where serious consideration is given to pricing and contract terms, besides "product" quality. These are the budgetary realities for them. Other "Noises" from competitors for whatever their reasons are best ignored. Zuhai Airshow has been timely - well done!
 

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