Yuan Class AIP & Kilo Submarine Thread


Tam

Major
Registered Member
Hello Tam, I know that in general the Kilo is capable of carrying the Club/Kalibr anti-ship missiles I just don't see any evidence that the Chinese boats have them. As I said Russia, India and Vietnam have them and the Song and Yuan's probably have them too. I think the Kilos were only fitted with torpedoes.
The Klubs were part of China's deal when purchasing the 636s long ago.
 

palejade

New Member
Registered Member
So it the SS-N 25 missiles were supplied for the eight Project 636M boats?
I'll have a look around and see if I can find any evidence of this,
Thanks.
 

Tam

Major
Registered Member
So it the SS-N 25 missiles were supplied for the eight Project 636M boats?
I'll have a look around and see if I can find any evidence of this,
Thanks.
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Looking at the sub with its tail outside of the shed, the propeller is gone. You can tell its 877 or 636 by the use of skewed prop. I wonder if the propeller will be replaced by a skewed propeller of Chinese design. Will the sub get AIP?

614afb91ly1gjf97vjd3rj22bc1jk7wh.jpg
 
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palejade

New Member
Registered Member
Thank you for the links, the Washington Post did say that the boats had been ordered along with the Club missiles. There is no evidence that the missiles were actually delivered.

Similarly, the GlobalSecurity.org link assumes that, in their words ‘...Because China has access to the entire family of Russian CLUB missiles, the new KILO submarines that began arriving in 2005 could have the 300km-range 3M-14 land attack cruise missile ...’

My scepticism comes from the fact that the Indian boats (admittedly the 877EKM version) had to be modified to launch missiles.

Also from the rather lengthy report at this link.

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Near the end of the piece they summarise the versions of ‘Kilo’ in 636 "Varshavyanka" they state that ‘several’ of the boats are equipped with Kalibr (not all of them).

There is a great deal of ‘cut and paste’ journalism which is often given more credit than it deserves.

You see the same wording in a number of different publications, all from a single source which is not disclosed. A photograph of a missile actually being loaded onto a Chinese Kilo would be evidence. Pretty much everything else is opinion.

As for new props and AIP wouldn't that make them a force to be reckoned with!
I also wonder if new battery technology is available like in the new Japanese boats?
 

Tam

Major
Registered Member
Thank you for the links, the Washington Post did say that the boats had been ordered along with the Club missiles. There is no evidence that the missiles were actually delivered.

Similarly, the GlobalSecurity.org link assumes that, in their words ‘...Because China has access to the entire family of Russian CLUB missiles, the new KILO submarines that began arriving in 2005 could have the 300km-range 3M-14 land attack cruise missile ...’

My scepticism comes from the fact that the Indian boats (admittedly the 877EKM version) had to be modified to launch missiles.

Also from the rather lengthy report at this link.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


Near the end of the piece they summarise the versions of ‘Kilo’ in 636 "Varshavyanka" they state that ‘several’ of the boats are equipped with Kalibr (not all of them).

There is a great deal of ‘cut and paste’ journalism which is often given more credit than it deserves.

You see the same wording in a number of different publications, all from a single source which is not disclosed. A photograph of a missile actually being loaded onto a Chinese Kilo would be evidence. Pretty much everything else is opinion.

As for new props and AIP wouldn't that make them a force to be reckoned with!
I also wonder if new battery technology is available like in the new Japanese boats?

Fair enough. Also, I doubt any 877 can fit Klub as the torpedo tubes would be too narrow.

I kind of doubt however, that any Kilo China bought during that time would be without Klubs, because China at that time was seeking to rapidly plug the capability gaps in its navy. That's like saying China bought the Sovremennys without the Moskits as part of the deal, which the Moskits were part of the deal. Or that China bought the Su-30MKK and MK2 without Kh-31P and Kh-31A respectively as part of the deal, and which they were part of the deal. All these happened in the same time period, in the Jiang Zhemin to early Hu Jin Tao era, and that's also the same period of time, the Kilos were purchased.

That same shed seems to be the same one used to overhaul Kilos long ago. Yes, back in 2007, China was already overhauling Kilos. These photos are from the CDF. I found them in Chinese sites long ago and posted them there. Part of the overhaul is that they take the old propellers out, probably pitted from cavitation effects and put new ones in. I do wonder if the 877s had their old props removed and fitted with skewed ones.

For the Kilo being overhauled in the present, as for the batteries, who knows, maybe. If you are going to experiment on lets say Lithium Ion, why not do it on an old sub being overhauled first.


Kilo_inrefit636.jpgKilo_inrefit.jpg
 

palejade

New Member
Registered Member
Great photos! And aren't we lucky that the sheds have open ends to see into them.
You see what I mean about a photograph being evidence?
It's just that when I checked to see if I could find three separate sources for a fact before I believed in it, I found more to doubt than believe in with regard to the Kilo weapons fit.
I doubt if the accounts are available for scrutiny!
Thanks again for your insightful replies.
 

Tam

Major
Registered Member
Great photos! And aren't we lucky that the sheds have open ends to see into them.
You see what I mean about a photograph being evidence?
It's just that when I checked to see if I could find three separate sources for a fact before I believed in it, I found more to doubt than believe in with regard to the Kilo weapons fit.
I doubt if the accounts are available for scrutiny!
Thanks again for your insightful replies.
No problem. You have valid doubts.
 

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