Yuan Class AIP & Kilo Submarine Thread


j17wang

Junior Member
Registered Member
Russia's own AIP efforts on the Lada class submarine flubbed, mainly because of the wrong direction, using fuel cells ala Germany, rather than Stirling engines, ala China and Sweden. The Russians would have to start from square one to restart in a new direction. Getting Stirling engines from China would be much easier. Another advantage the Chinese have would be Lithium battery technologies.
LOL, what I actually want is Russia to co-develop a sub with China, and then sell it to India. If India, doesn't want chinese 5G and chinese apps, it will at least pay its due share through buying subs with chinese developed tech. :)

Or buy more subs for the europeans for billions if they want to go down that route...
 

Tirdent

Junior Member
Registered Member
Russia's own AIP efforts on the Lada class submarine flubbed, mainly because of the wrong direction, using fuel cells ala Germany, rather than Stirling engines, ala China and Sweden. The Russians would have to start from square one to restart in a new direction. Getting Stirling engines from China would be much easier. Another advantage the Chinese have would be Lithium battery technologies.
Fuel cells are hardly the wrong direction, at least in terms of stealth and possibly also autonomy (in other words, both of the most important considerations for a submarine!) they are actually the gold standard AIP solution. Exotic materials technology (by contrast, it doesn't get much simpler than a Stirling engine, though silencing is a challenge) and - if it operates on straight hydrogen as fuel - logistically burdensome though. Here's where some of the difficulty experienced by the Russians stems from, they are striving to use normal Diesel fuel, thus integrating seamlessly into existing, well established supply and storage infrastructure. This requires an on-board reformer to break down the hydrocarbon molecules and release their hydrogen content, further exacerbating the complexity of the power plant.

I expect Russia will wait until their Diesel-based fuel cell technology matures before building AIP boats for domestic use, but a Stirling option for export Kilos and Ladas would certainly be a useful option. Li-Ion batteries would be an attractive Chinese contribution for both indigenous subs and exports though.
 
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gelgoog

Senior Member
Registered Member
Li-ion is a lot cheaper and less cumbersome than fuel cells. Plus you can use off the shelf parts.
If you want to use fuel cell AIP it would not be impossible to use SOFC instead of PEM fuel cells. SOFCs operate at higher temperatures and can break down natural gas without a reformer. Instead of platinum and Nafion polymer it uses ceramics. Natural gas is more energy dense than hydrogen gas.
 

timepass

Brigadier
Pakistan’s New Type-039B AIP Submarines: Image Shows Shipyard Expansion

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The Pakistan Navy's expansion is gearing up in Karachi. Major enhancements are evident at a shipyard, where a new construction hall and a dry dock greatly increase capacity. Although details are scarce, it seems likely that the local construction of Chinese-designed AIP (Air Independent Power) submarines will take place there.


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Tam

Major
Registered Member
Kilos parked near Hudong Zhonghua. This area is close to where we see 054 in refit and 054A in overhaul. Kilo in overhaul. MLU? Are they going to switch it to Chinese electronics like they did to Sovremenny? From the PDF. Same photographer taking pictures of 075, 056 and 054A around Huangpu River.



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palejade

New Member
Registered Member
When the Kilo class all come out of this MLU I wonder which anti-ship missile they will have?
Will it have Chinese or Russian torpedo tube launched missiles?
I’m pretty sure they don’t have any at the moment.
I do know that Russian, Indian and Vietnamese Kilo’s have the SS-N 25. (Vietnam got the missiles but not the warheads for them).

Song and Yuan classes allegedly carry the 3M-54 Kalibr, SS-N 27 Sizzler (Club-S) but I doubt that these are carried by the Kilo’s.
Maybe the new YJ-18 will be the missile fitted to all the Chinese submarines.

China have three versions of Kilo, built in three different Russian shipyards there must be minor differences between them.
It would make sense to bring them all up to the same standard with all new Chinese equipment.
 

Tam

Major
Registered Member
Should be noted that the Kilos are in the HDZ shipyard in Huangpu River, close to where the 054As getting overhauled.

Yuans carry the YJ-18, I don't think the Songs does. Kilos carry the Klub/Kaliber antiship missiles.

Chinese Kilos belong to the 877 and 636-1, which is the first batch. Vietnam got the 636-2, which is the second batch, later built, a bit more advanced. Those serving in the Russian Navy are the latest, 636-3 batch, and still in production.

If the Chinese Kilos are getting MLU, they might be replacing all the Russian electronics to Chinese. That means sonar, ESM, radar, communications and so on, possibly the same equipment used on the Yuans. They may likely end up firing the YJ-18.
 

palejade

New Member
Registered Member
Hello Tam, I know that in general the Kilo is capable of carrying the Club/Kalibr anti-ship missiles I just don't see any evidence that the Chinese boats have them. As I said Russia, India and Vietnam have them and the Song and Yuan's probably have them too. I think the Kilos were only fitted with torpedoes.
 
When the Kilo class all come out of this MLU I wonder which anti-ship missile they will have?
Will it have Chinese or Russian torpedo tube launched missiles?
I’m pretty sure they don’t have any at the moment.
I do know that Russian, Indian and Vietnamese Kilo’s have the SS-N 25. (Vietnam got the missiles but not the warheads for them).

Song and Yuan classes allegedly carry the 3M-54 Kalibr, SS-N 27 Sizzler (Club-S) but I doubt that these are carried by the Kilo’s.
Maybe the new YJ-18 will be the missile fitted to all the Chinese submarines.

China have three versions of Kilo, built in three different Russian shipyards there must be minor differences between them.
It would make sense to bring them all up to the same standard with all new Chinese equipment.
"I do know that Russian, Indian and Vietnamese Kilo’s have the SS-N 25. (Vietnam got the missiles but not the warheads for them)."

That's very interesting, how come the Vietnamese don't have the warheads for SS-N 25? very strange
 

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