Westerners believe if someone makes a charge that they believe is false, they challenge it. Because of that they also believe if they make a charge and it's not challenged, then it must be true because if it were wrong someone would protest it. Trying to convince someone of their wrong only makes the person that is guilty feel arrogant that they need to be convince as if their opinion is important.
You even criticize Chinese bad behavior. The irony is you talk about the Chinese should take the higher road and be civilized but when people talk about Chinese bad behavior, they're saying the Chinese are uncivilized. So what does Chinese being passive get? You know what the number one complaint of Asian-Americans is? They feel invisible.... that people ignore them. That's because they're passive and don't want to create waves even when wronged. Asians in the US envy what other minorities in the US have. And you what all those minorities have in common? They're not passive when wronged.
If someone chooses to believe in their pathetic fantasy, why not let them?
I criticize bad behaviors by Chinese because I'm a Chinese (HK-Canadian), and I feel I'm obliged to whistleblow and call out on my own kind when they misbehave. I feel as me being from the ingroup, I possess the greatest credit and obligation to do such an action, because if we don't, no one else would. Idea being quite how the family member or friend of a misbehaving individual will have the most right to rein in the person. (note: I won't call them "Chinese bad behavior" because I believe our original culture is beautiful and taught us to act civilized and mannered, and what's currently happening in mainland is
not something should be characterized as Chinese. Analogy quite like how a few Canadians being racist or doing cold-blooded things shouldn't then be used to characterize that as how Canadians are. You may say I'm being hypocritical, but all along my condemnations are directed towards those poor behaviors exhibited by those individuals, not the overall population they originate from.)
And as for how that's irony, I don't really get it. They can call out anything they want, because bias, prejudice, and stereotype are within people, and it's not our job to get rid of it in their systems. We can only do our parts to deny the reinforcement of these stereotypes, but ultimately it's up to them to change their attitudes. Some may and some may not, but either way they don't concern us, and it's
not something we have the right to force them to see differently. Using the hot-headed approach will never get any struggles to far.
While on that, you brought up the concept of sticking up for oneself. While that is something I agree to, I disagree with your approach. You must see in yourself and must admit that your approach carries too much emotions(negative ones), bias, even hatred and anger, which I will say, will undermine the overall message and effectiveness it could've relayed. I agree with standing up for oneself, but there are reasons why MLK, Ghandhi, Mandela, are hailed as great people. They stood up for their people in the means of non-violence and wisdom. They eventually did bring out their struggles. For Asian Americans, Chinese, and any oppressed groups in the suffering of classisms, the first recognition towards making a difference is staying away from blood-drenched hatred. Hatred builds greater divide and hatred, and it won't get us anywhere. The Civil War ended slavery, but segregation and racial divide was still there. MLK and various Black Movements made the changes through peaceful civilized actions. (for my American friends, please forgive if I made mistakes in what I had written up there, as here in Canada we don't study American history all that much) Before I drag further, back to here it's the same idea. Struggles is a long road, and considering the population of Asian-Americans (1%) in the US, the struggle will require extensive time. Asian-Americans are the educated bunch, and often retaining our cultural values as well as Western individualism and understanding of the Western culture. That said, it's even greater in our part to bear the burden of behaving even more proper, as we are more understanding of racism and the need for relentless struggles than our folks back in Asia. Going on, it's true that many Asian-Americans also share the weakness of focusing on their own personal lives, but with proper motivations people will join a cause, particularly if they feel it is something which represents them.
In terms of perceptions towards China, let's not forget most people don't know China all that too well, and hence why they will speak stuffs like those. It will always exist, as there will always be people thinking MJ did surgery(when in fact he had skin disorders) We can defend or stand up for China by words of reasons, not relentless condemnations and even stretching it into other's religion(I personally think that's very insulting) Either for China or Asian Americans, it's right to stand up for oneself, but not in the methods of teeth-clenching blood hatred and anger. That's not going to get anywhere. And why I said this is because I sort of felt yours carry a very strong condemning tone, and often people who carry too much of such tone will blanket their original message. Next thing, criticisms. I think it's alright to stand up to oneself and defend with valid arguments, points, and messages, but when you begin to retaliate into calling out on their religion and various other generalizing stereotype, it just breed hatred, downturn the original purpose, and risk fueling a flame-war. There are reasons why even this forum encourages us to report misbehavior and not to retaliate with further immaturity. I think these are just common sense, and not something I had to really explain too much of.
Lastly, when you think that's how you "stand up" for your kind, the result is that not only people don't think you're telling them they're wrong, they're more likely to dismiss you and your points (no matter how valid they are) because they will think you are biased/brainwashed. You present to them as someone defending something, and defenders means they are biased towards the things they are defending. Someone who reasons will only speak what's true and factual, not taking sides, and primarily convinces by explanations. People say stupid things, and they don't always know they are. When they are corrected by provided the proper information, they are more likely to consider than blind defense, since such defense perhaps will appeal less to their cognitive sides.(Perhaps Superdog can verify if what I've just said is actually true. I just typed that stuff out as I was thinking and processing this "logic".) I'm sure you've experienced that before, and while you may think they are out to go against you, I'd say that it's extremely possible that you had committed yourself to a hole which you actually dug yourself because from your biased, senseless condemnation. By intellectualism, even people who refuses to acknowledge your point will have trouble denouncing you as biased/brainwashed/inferior because they have nothing to hold you accountable for. All in all, unless you're planning to genocide your opposition, "power grows from the barrel of the gun" and hatred-fueled condemnation and criticisms will rarely win the minds or earn the respect of the population that matters most; your opponents. Let's not forget Ghandi's "eye for an eye makes the world blind". Sure insults and attacks to our group happens a lot, but with proper civilized actions we can still present ourselves as strong power fueled by an unified legitimate message that forces the offender to apologize.
Finally, criticism is a very important thing in Chinese culture, don't you know? Confucius teaches humility and modesty, and part of it comes from being able to take criticisms. If all these pro-China people thinks every criticism(even the constructive ones with insightful advices) as attacks to their culture, and thus they have to go beserk and do everything to defend their title because they "
think" they are "standing up" for their culture, including denying/ignoring the proper criticisms ones, bashing the critics, and blaming and saying it's just people being against China, then seriously I think these people have a very severe issue of cultural inferiority complex. They can complain about how others bash their own culture because of inferiority complex, but are they not even worse, by defending China irrationally every time? They are just as bad as those bashers, except worse, and just a different breed of the same thing. Them and their defence mechanisms. Unknown to them, those people
always lose, even though they thought they won by being more aggressive than others.(Like the example you mentioned at the top regarding arrogant people) No one respects them, and no one thinks they won because they never brought out any real points to sweep the debate in their favor.
We Chinese with our 5000 years of history have a lot in us and should've taught us what a true civilization is, and so why are we now not behaving like we should?
And seriously, there will always be monkeys throwing feces everywhere. It doesn't mean we should follow suit.
I can understand the core ideas you're presenting and they're things I would agree to, but the problem is you shouldn't get them mixed, and with emotions. I'm going to be really dead honest with you here not because I harbor anything personal against you, but rather I want to point something out and hope my share are helpful.
You've presented strong arguments and points often in your posts, but hints of emotions displayed in your posts often work against the strength and the respect that your posts should've deserved.
