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Dizasta1

Senior Member
then we might as well pull out of the middle East as a whole save for Isreal who despite the claims is the single state inn the whole mess whom most closely aligns with American views of Human rights, universal suffrage and democracy.
Does the "alignment" have a leg to stand on, with the sinking of USS Liberty, which saw U.S Navy sailors slaughtered by the Israelis, despite clearly flying the US flag on the vessel? Or does that count as "human rights, universal suffrage and democracy," where an apology for mistaking the vessel as enemy is sufficient enough? If the United States thinks that Israel is its ally, then they are mistaken, it's not.
 

Dizasta1

Senior Member
I see what you are saying, but here this side of the story. No one inside Saudi can do anything without full knowledge of the man in charge, in this case its MBS and he is really that stupid, no one has authority to murder in a foreign embassy of Saudi unless direct order came from MBS himself. King Salam in 80 years in charge never did anything like this, he now has slight Parkinson's and his memory is not well personally I don't think he ordered it or even knew of it. King Salam does not have this kind of track record. MBS still has 50-60 years ahead of him, you cannot have a lunatic run the country. No one wants to damage their alliance with Saudis but there is many inside the country that we can talk with, MBS isnt the only contact. MBS can be brought to international trial brokered by UN, we don't have to damage our relationship with rest of Al Saud family

Keep the alliance keep the relationship, talk to Saudis and keep oil flowing and trade, there is others who are more liberal and less lunatic than MBS we can talk with. CIA and Turks have concluded MBS is solely responsible as such I hope he is given a death sentence, the people who did it were just following instructions. British have a very close intelligence co-operation with Saudis, on everything, what is the point of this intelligence sharing agreement if they are going to recklessly act by themselves, this is a total disrespect of the agreement and they should be punished heavily for this
MBS represents the generation of Saudi regime, which wants to disassociate itself from the Wahhabi Religious Council, which is in itself, a powerful entity. But that doesn't make MBS a "good guy" for the Islamic World. In so far as America is concerned, the Saudi regime are no different to it, than what Saddam, Assad, Mubarak, Shah or any other yuppie puppet-leader was. I believe the word that best describes this particular relationship is, "expendable." So long as it benefits U.S policy, yes. However Saudis mean a bit more to U.S (truthfully, it's Israel more than the U.S), is the obsession of the Saudi regime and its Wahhabi Religious Council, of Iran. Without this rivalry between the two states, the Western World's military industrial complex, would find itself in a dilapidated state.

At present, one of two scenarios would play out; one would be where MBS concedes to whatever demand America and Israel, which would eventually lead to the whole affair of the murder of WSJ Journalist would be buried. The second scenario is where the Americans find a willing partner from the Saudi stock and he would then replace MBS (who would either step down himself, succumb to a mysterious death, or be outright assassinated by one of his cousins).

The War in Yemen, waged by the Saudi regime, is due to Saudi belief that Iran is arming the Houthies. Saudis would do anything (even mass murder) when it comes to Iranian involvement. That's the level of their obsessive fear of Iran, that they wouldn't allow any Iranian influence in Jazeerat-ul-Arab (Arabia's true name and translated as Arabian Peninsula). Whether it be absorbing Bahrain into the Saudi kingdom, or usurping Yemen's territory, or killing thousands of Yemenis through starvation or bombings. America doesn't really care, so long as they get what they want. So Kashoggi murder or not, Yemen War or not, so long as the Oil prices remain low, and Russia suffers as a result of it. Let the War in Yemen continue, it matters little to the United States.

P.S: my reference to the United States is not it's people, rather the government/s of US and their policies toward other nations.
 
Last edited:
Friday at 9:10 PM
tragicomic they don't ever mention actual combat value ("value") of some vessels being procured for example 35 LCSs Sep 18, 2018
, just aggregate number in ...
... also
Navy Wants Alternative Funding for Columbia SSBNs to Accelerate 355-Ship Fleet
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The Navy continues to push for the upcoming Columbia-class ballistic-missile submarine program to be funded outside the normal shipbuilding budget, as opportunities exist to reach a 355-ship fleet faster but the $100-billion SSBN program looms over the next 15 years of spending.

Vice Adm. Bill Merz, deputy chief of naval operations for warfare systems (OPNAV N9), told USNI News today after a Senate Armed Services seapower subcommittee hearing that those discussions – which have been ongoing between the Navy, the Pentagon and Congress for the past several years – are “becoming more active” as the start of construction in Fiscal Year 2021 draws closer.

“To be clear, the Columbia is the number-one program. The Columbia will be funded; it’s really the impact on the rest of the shipbuilding account that we have to negotiate with how we’re going to cover down,” he said.

Asked if there seemed to be support for the idea of funding Columbia through a special account outside the Navy’s annual shipbuilding and conversion appropriations, Merz said, “I think so. I think everybody appreciates the fidelity of the last shipbuilding plan to highlight that the storm is coming; it’s beyond the [five-year Future Years Defense Program], so typically outside the near-term horizon, but because we took the effort to actually lay out those details over the entire 30-year shipbuilding plan hopefully that will posture us for the Columbia challenge, other challenges that may be coming that we can get into position to handle before it’s a panic, before it’s already on top of us.”

Though there is technically no limit to how much money Congress can pour into the Navy’s shipbuilding appropriation, the Navy has feared that asking for a total appropriation too high above the historical norm would not be well received or fully funded either by the Pentagon or by lawmakers. The Navy had received in the ballpark of $15 billion a year earlier this decade, and the current FY 2019 budget includes $24.2 billion – already higher than recent historical averages, and including only advance procurement for the first Columbia-class boat rather than serial construction that will start in a few years. To ease these fears, the Navy for several years now has pushed for the idea of funding the next generation of SSBNs in a supplemental account, leaving the Navy to negotiate a normal shipbuilding budget that focuses on growing its fleet of amphibious ships, attack submarines, large and small combatants and more without the Columbia program threatening these other classes’ funding.

Sen. Roger Wicker (R-Miss.), the chairman of the SASC seapower subcommittee, seemed to express support for this idea during the hearing. Wicker noted the statutory requirement for the Navy to build a 355-ship fleet – which the service is on track to reach by FY 2034, according to current plans.

“Let me ask you about some assumptions that might change the plan and get us there faster. Specifically, what would happen if the Navy changed some or all of the following assumptions: executed additional service life extensions? Maintain overall shipbuilding funding levels at the Fiscal Year 2035 level after we get finished with the Columbia class procurement – that would be sweet, wouldn’t it? Receive supplemental funding for the Columbia program outside the normal account in FY 21 through 35? And/or use the available shipyard capacity identified in the 30-year shipbuilding plan?” Wicker said at the beginning of the hearing.

“I think all those would be instruments of change to move that to the left,” replied Navy acquisition chief James Geurts.
“When we built the shipbuilding plan we built the framework of what a steady sustainable rate would be and then where we had opportunities to accelerate should funding become available, whether that’s in destroyers or submarines or in some of the other classes. So those opportunities exist. Depending on the levels of those assumptions you spoke of, there there’s certainly opportunity there to move that plan to the left.”

Geurts made clear though that the Navy was focused on growing to 355 ships in a balanced way – meaning not just building more ships, but ensuring the service could properly man them, maintain them at public and private shipyards, operate them around the globe, and cover other lifecycle costs.

Merz said during the exchange with Wicker that “absolutely fundamental to sustaining our shipbuilding plan is a steady funding profile and figuring out an alternate solution to the Columbia funding profile, which we’ve already identified in the shipbuilding plan and that’s work to be done – not quite a panic yet, but it’s on the horizon and we’re going to have to deal with that.”

Another current statutory requirement – the return of the Budget Control Act spending caps – could hamper the ability to grow the fleet at the Navy’s desired pace. Wicker asked how a flat or declining budget would affect Navy shipbuilding. Merz said the return of BCA would have an “immediate to devastating impact” depending on the exact cuts, and Geurts said “obviously at the BCA level, that significant a cut would be difficult to imagine us executing the current plan under BCA caps.”
 
Navy and Marine Corps are dropping some money on barrier-penetrating 5.56 mm ammo
instead of shooting a bigger caliber LOL
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The U.S. military has long complained about the penetration capabilities of 5.56 mm ammunition, and now the Navy and the Corps are looking to remedy the issue with a new barrier-penetrating 5.56 round.

On Nov. 20, the DoD announced a $41,181,315 contract award to Federal Cartridge Co. for 5.56 ammunition that can defeat some barriers like auto windshields and doors.

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that the new round, known as the MK 318 MOD 0 round, was tested by the Corps following complaints about the standard 5.56 ammunition.

Before lawmakers in March, Army Chief of Staff Gen.
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complained that the standard 5.56 mm round had trouble penetrating some forms of body armor.

“The 5.56 round, we recognize there is a type of body armor it does not penetrate, and adversarial states are selling that stuff on the Internet for about 250 bucks,” Milley said.
 
Nov 17, 2018
it's actually interesting what I've now read which is
Migrants Won't See Armed Soldiers at US-Mexico Border
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:
while now
Troops may spend Christmas on US-Mexico border
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Many of the 5,600 active-duty forces deployed to the U.S.-Mexico border may not be home in time for Christmas,
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, citing defense officials.

The media outlet reports the Pentagon will extend those troops,
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, through January, citing the surge of as many as 5,000 migrants now at the Tijuana checkpoint.

Defense Secretary Jim Mattis told reporters Monday that the Pentagon was working daily with the Department of Homeland Security on what the agency needs at the border. When asked if DoD had received a request for an extension, Mattis initially replied one was under consideration.

“The ports of entry I think are pretty much done," Mattis said. "There’s a little on the flanks of a couple of them we are still working on. So we’ll have to see if the request extends further.”

“You haven’t received one yet?” A reporter asked.

“They’re working on it right now,” Mattis said. He later clarified DoD was working the overall needs at the border, however a defense official later confirmed that while no specific extension request has been received, the outlines of what one would contain was being worked at staff levels.

Mattis has previously hinted that an extension may be coming. In a briefing with reporters, Mattis was asked if the deployed active duty forces would be home by the 15th.

“That’ll be mission-dependent, situation-dependent if they need to be extended,” Mattis said the day before Thanksgiving. “So some of those troops certainly will be home, I would anticipate they would be. But some troops may not be or some new troops may be
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. But this is a dynamic situation.”

Two defense officials told Military Times there has been no request received from the Department of Homeland Security. DHS would have to request the additional force presence and what capabilities they require; then the Pentagon would resource the request.

NPR reported that some of the original forces may rotate home and be replaced.

A DHS official did not have an immediate comment Wednesday on the reports of the extension.

Last week, the White House provided the military with additional authorities, including crowd control, temporary detention, search and other typically law enforcement roles to support border agents.

The troops are also authorized to use up to lethal force, but Mattis has repeatedly said those forces along the border, save for a few senior enlisted troops,
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, and use shields and batons if necessary.

Photos over the weekend showed a surge of migrant men, women and young children fleeing tear gas and trying to breach the checkpoint at Tijuana, Mexico.
 

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