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Air Force Brat

Brigadier
Staff member
Super Moderator
so Trump is putting money above human rights ?

can someone who dismisses the verdict of his own intelligence agency's be fit for president?

Capitol Hill has a different views and Democrats are preparing for a move, removing MBS?
I appreciate your perspective, and those are the optics, the President's didn't present his position very well honestly!

But don't you think this is just a little too "convenient", I mean MBS has a LOT to lose, is he really that stupid?? he's a reformer, and has a desire for Saudi Arabia to move into the modern age..

I can honestly see those who think they are defending Islam? doing something like this to derail those reforms and get rid of MBS??

Saudi Arabia will put many of those actual perpetrators to death, and imprison the others, and if MBS is found to be guilty of ordering Khashoggi's murder, I have no problem with him meeting the same fate..

President Trump and Mike Pompeo are right, our Alliance with Saudi Arabia is far too important to throw away, and the President did state that the Congress would likely open an investigation..
 

asif iqbal

Brigadier
I appreciate your perspective, and those are the optics, the President's didn't present his position very well honestly!

But don't you think this is just a little too "convenient", I mean MBS has a LOT to lose, is he really that stupid?? he's a reformer, and has a desire for Saudi Arabia to move into the modern age..

I can honestly see those who think they are defending Islam? doing something like this to derail those reforms and get rid of MBS??

Saudi Arabia will put many of those actual perpetrators to death, and imprison the others, and if MBS is found to be guilty of ordering Khashoggi's murder, I have no problem with him meeting the same fate..

President Trump and Mike Pompeo are right, our Alliance with Saudi Arabia is far too important to throw away, and the President did state that the Congress would likely open an investigation..
I see what you are saying, but here this side of the story

No one inside Saudi can do anything without full knowledge of the man in charge, in this case its MBS

MBS is really that stupid, no one has authority to murder in a foreign embassy of Saudi unless direct order came from MBS himself

King Salam in 80 years in charge never did anything like this, he now has slight Parkinson's and his memory is not well personally I don't think he ordered it or even knew of it

King Salam does not have this kind of track record

MBS still has 50-60 years ahead of him, you cannot have a lunatic run the country

No one wants to damage their alliance with Saudis but there is many inside the country that we can talk with, MBS isnt the only contact

MBS can be brought to international trial brokered by UN, we don't have to damage our relationship with rest of Al Saud family

Keep the alliance keep the relationship, talk to Saudis and keep oil flowing and trade, there is others who are more liberal and less lunatic than MBS we can talk with

CIA and Turks have concluded MBS is solely responsible as such I hope he is given a death sentence, the people who did it were just following instructions

British have a very close intelligence co-operation with Saudis, on everything, what is the point of this intelligence sharing agreement if they are going to recklessly act by themselves, this is a total disrespect of the agreement and they should be punished heavily for this
 

Jura

General
Jan 26, 2018
inside

How the Saudis Drag the US into Perpetual War in the Mideast
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just one sentence about money? "Signing
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arms-sale deals with the Saudis—as Trump did this past year—only contributes to the bad optics."
LOL the author was coy, so I'll say it: Saudi Ariabia has been bonanza
Oct 9, 2016
no wonder
Trump statement sticks with Saudis, hyping economic benefits of alliance
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Last edited:

Jura

General
quote of the day comes from
Navy Developing Prompt Global Strike Weapon that Could Launch from Sub or Surface Ship
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:



Asked about creating a new weapon despite a U.S. ban on testing nukes, Wolfe

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“We are 100-percent confident that when we put those out there, they’re going to work as designed,” he added.
 

Jura

General
Mar 30, 2018
Jan 28, 2018
updating 'retirement of the Warthog' LOL! with U.S. Air Force To Kick Off Competition For New A-10 Wings

Mar 27, 2018
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now
BRRRT with Surround Sound: A-10 May Get New 3D Audio System
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The U.S.
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may soon finalize how many surround-sound audio systems it will retrofit into the
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attack aircraft as part of an effort to give Warthog pilots more situational awareness.

Earlier this month, the Air Force quietly issued an update to an earlier request for information, saying it plans to award Terma North America Inc., a defense aerospace company, a sole-source contract to integrate a commercial off-the-shelf three-dimensional audio system "to drastically
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, battlespace, and situational awareness of the A-10C pilots,"
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on the government contracting website FedBizOpps. The RFI was originally issued last December.
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first first reported on the new update, which was also cited by the
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.

According to Terma, the 3D audio works as a self-protection system. Pilots have multiple audio signals coming at them, making it difficult to discern certain radio calls or even warnings. Terma's system breaks that apart into a surround-sound effect to better hear dueling signals.

The 3D audio has been used in the Danish
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Missile Warner System upgrade, according to the company.

While the Air Force has not set a date for giving Terma an Indefinite Quantity/Indefinite Delivery (IDIQ) contract, nor disclosed how many systems it plans to buy, the latest announcement shows the service is willing to invest in capabilities that may make the A-10 more survivable in a high-threat environment.

The A-10 doesn't have a stealth coating like its
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and
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cousins, but the close-air support mission aircraft carries a variety of rockets, missiles and bombs fastened to hardpoints under its wings. It most notably employs its
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, which produces an iconic sound that ground troops never forget.

But increasingly non-permissive environments have concerned Defense Department officials in recent years, and leaders have begun asking
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could survive in conflicts with neer-pear competitors such as Russia and China.

In January, the Air Force said it had begun searching for a new company to rebuild wings on the A-10 after
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The following month, it released a request draft for proposal for companies to start working on their propositions to re-wing the 109 remaining aircraft in the inventory needing upgrades.

Air Force officials have said the service can commit to maintaining wings for six of its nine A-10 combat squadrons through roughly 2030.

It has yet to commit to re-winging all 281 A-10s currently in its inventory.
 

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
so Trump is putting money above human rights ?
I am sure a harsher critic of some of our members would retort that that would be "Business as usual."
I would say if we pulled the plug over this then we might as well pull out of the middle East as a whole save for Isreal who despite the claims is the single state inn the whole mess whom most closely aligns with American views of Human rights, universal suffrage and democracy.
can someone who dismisses the verdict of his own intelligence agency's be fit for president?
plently have before plenty will later. Especially when from what we have heard from the CIA of late there seems to be a deep slant inn the agency favoring policy over actual Intel.
Capitol Hill has a different views and Democrats are preparing for a move, removing MBS?
and that's innthere right but they are still only in charge of the lower house the upper is still Republican as is the President.
MBS is a all round controversial figure with reforms and changes he has made and pushing for as well as the internal crackdown. Removing him though is about as real as the easterbunny
 

Jura

General
tragicomic they don't ever mention actual combat value ("value") of some vessels being procured for example 35 LCSs Sep 18, 2018
now
Congress to buy 3 more LCS than the Navy needs, but gut funding for sensors that make them valuable
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:


"Congress loves buying
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, but when it comes to the packages of sensors and systems that make the ships useful, lawmakers have been less enthusiastic.


In the
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that just left the conference committee, lawmakers have funded a 33rd, 34th and 35th littoral combat ship, three more than the 32-ship requirement set by the Navy. But when it comes to the mission modules destined to make each ship either a mine sweeper, submarine hunter or small surface combatant, that funding has been slashed."

and I quit
, just aggregate number in Panel: Navy May Have to Choose Between New Ballistic Missile Subs or 355 Ship Fleet
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The Navy could be forced to make hard choices sooner rather than later when it comes to finding the money to replace its aging ballistic missile submarines or reach its goal of having a fleet of 355 warships, a panel of security and budgetary experts said this week.

When asked by USNI News what the future holds for fleet size and ballistic missile submarines now that the Democrats control the House, Frank Rose, a senior fellow at the Brookings Institution and former assistant secretary of state for arms control, he said: “There is not enough money” for both, and “priorities need to be taken.”

Rose and Jim Miller, a former undersecretary of Defense for policy, came down firmly on the side of building the Columbia-class ballistic missile submarines, the replacements for the current Ohio-class, in setting priorities for Navy spending.

For the U.S., the ballistic missile submarines “secures the second strike” in event of a nuclear attack. “It really is the backbone of our nuclear force now and for the next 70 to 80 years,” Rose said.

The Navy shouldn’t be allowed to say, “sorry, we ran out of money” when it comes to paying for the ballistic missile submarine because the shipbuilding account was used for other kinds of warships. “The Navy needs to step up to that bill,” Miller said.

That line of thought is not confined to think-tanks.

Rep. Adam Smith, (D-Wash.), who is expected to become chairman of the House Armed Services Committee when the new Congress convenes in January, has long expressed skepticism over the Navy’s shipbuilding plan leading to a fleet of 355 warships. He has several times at recent public events referred to it as “
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A sense of how the Republican-controlled Senate Armed Services Committee will line up on fleet size and modernizing the nuclear triad could come Tuesday when the full panel looks at the recommendations of the commission on the National Defense Strategy and that afternoon its sea power subcommittee looks at current and future shipbuilding plans.

In his presentation, Miller said a fleet of 355 ships, meaning a growth of about 70 from the current size “are numbers that should be challenged” as should those increasing Army end strength from about 450,000 soldiers to 510,000. If all the services force structure numbers were challenged there would be funds for readiness and modernization, including the nuclear triad.

“Will this administration put its money where its strategy [of deterring new-peer competitors — Russia and China] is?” he asked rhetorically.

There is some concern that the Trump administration will pull back from long-term, continually rising Pentagon budgets. The Defense Department was planning for a request for Fiscal Year 2020 of $733 billion, but it has now been told by the Office of Management and Budget to work with a $700 billion top line.

The question for all the services is: “can they get by with current force structure” if missions are also re-examined to free money for readiness, modernization and investment in the future like cyber resilience and space, especially sensors for missile defense.

Michael O’Hanlon, who moderated the session at Brookings in Washington, D.C., added in answer to the USNI News question that for the Navy it means looking at the missions its accepts critically. For example, does the lack of an aircraft carrier strike group presence in the Persian Gulf upset security in the region. Or is it a way to free money for other things. He pointed out that when there was no carrier present there for months Iran did not act more aggressively.

“The Middle East was a mess before; the Middle East was a mess after. [The Navy] can be more flexible [and that] could be with a smaller fleet,” he said.

Miller said during the presentation and later with USNI there was a tradeoff that needed to be understood between “quantity and quality.”

Following the presentation, Miller said the Navy “is in a bind” when it has to choose between large capital surface ships, like carriers, “and places where it has an advantage, like submarines — boomers and attack and unmanned undersea vessels. He added modernizing the amphibious fleet remained a priority to meet the need for rapid response of Marines and special forces.

Overhanging all this discussion of where the Pentagon should spend its money is the old bugaboo — sequestration, the automatic across-the-board cuts in defense and domestic spending if deficits are not offset, as required by existing law.

Maya MacGuiness, president of the Committee for a Responsible Budget, said unless Congress reaches a spending agreement Pentagon spending would automatically fall back to $576 billion because the Budget Control Act of 2011 remains in place. As it has in the past, Congress has reached an agreement to lift the caps, but is no longer trying to offset those hikes in spending with comparable cuts in other programs.

With a trillion dollar deficit and national debt “the highest it has been since World War II,” she said the United States “faces incredible fiscal challenges,” but administrations and Congress aren’t making the choices in where to cut, where to spend, how to find revenue to pay for programs, cover entitlements — in and out of the military, and meet the interest payments on the debt.

Instead, there has been “a doubling down” on spending and cutting taxes. The reality has become “I won’t pay for mine; you won’t pay for yours.”

MacGuiness said, “We have to stop the notion we can have it all” in federal spending on guns and butter. She did not predict whether the new Congress would make those decisions.

While expecting House Democrats to exercise more executive branch oversight, Elaine Kamerck, of Brookings, said didn’t see their approach come the New Year as an all-out assault on Pentagon spending. The party’s leadership is concerned about keeping its majority having taken seats in more conservative suburban areas after 2020. A more interesting question come January will be “how does the Republican leadership in Congress take the lessons from the elections” that saw “them decimated in the suburbs” and their winning margins cut in rural areas, she said, and apply them to the budget.
 

gelgoog

Senior Member
Registered Member
I am sure a harsher critic of some of our members would retort that that would be "Business as usual."
I would say if we pulled the plug over this then we might as well pull out of the middle East as a whole save for Isreal who despite the claims is the single state inn the whole mess whom most closely aligns with American views of Human rights, universal suffrage and democracy.
plently have before plenty will later. Especially when from what we have heard from the CIA of late there seems to be a deep slant inn the agency favoring policy over actual Intel.
and that's innthere right but they are still only in charge of the lower house the upper is still Republican as is the President.
MBS is a all round controversial figure with reforms and changes he has made and pushing for as well as the internal crackdown. Removing him though is about as real as the easterbunny
There was an alternative. The Iran deal that Obama made thawed relations with that country which would not have allowed the Saudis and OPEC to blackmail the rest of the world with the threat of higher oil prices as easily. Between one regime and the other I would have to say that Iran isn't THAT bad. Iran might be a state sponsor of "terrorism" worldwide but they are so to a lesser degree than the Saudis (I kid you not) and they are actually a stabilizing influence in the region. Unlike the Saudis which in recent years seem to either invade or have a spat with one of their neighbors be it Bahrein, Qatar, or Yemen. Their regime is clearly out of control.

Had the deal with Iran been maintained the USA would have had more leverage against Saudi Arabia's behavior. But of course it had to be thrown out because Obama made it.
 

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
There was an alternative. The Iran deal that Obama made thawed relations with that country which would not have allowed the Saudis and OPEC to blackmail the rest of the world with the threat of higher oil prices as easily.
Yeah Iran.... yeah so how do I put this. Instead of staying with one nation with a questionable human rights record, use of oil money to sponsor questionable alliances. We jump into bed with another who is just a guilty? If not more so. And who actively is involved with support of armed groups who fight against your own foreign policy.

I mean if you want to try and make a moral equivalent here it's like saying one shouldn't be friends with John Gotti but should buddy with James "Whitie" Bulger.
 

Jura

General
That's what I said...jeez...by the way I never read the full article...
if you want, try
Federal watchdog report chides Navy for submarine maintenance snafus
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what nobody will ever say is this:
this 'deferred' maintenance means those subs will be available for longer time in the future (would be important if new financial challenges occurred);

what nobody asks is this:
had those subs been available earlier (thanks to no maintenance delays), what would the USN have gained? I mean what opportunities were missed
 

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