UK Military News, Reports, Data, etc.

Atomicfrog said:

I'm talking incredible build-up of crap between that barrel and fancy hangrip and suppressor.... all these artifice are insane dirt trap. Nowhere I have talked about jam... These gun will become mudballs, probably good for enhancing camo.

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Jams do happen due to dirt and mud getting into the rifle. My point is that AR-style rifles can still perform even if they become mudballs thanks to their sealing nature. Like what @TerraN_EmpirE said, the concept of AR15's easily intaking small amount of mud and getting jammed has been proven to be false. In the examples I mentioned, the AR-style rifles both went through extremely austere environments, ie muddy terrain, and they both did well.

LawLeadsToPeace said:

Jams do happen due to dirt and mud getting into the rifle. My point is that AR-style rifles can still perform even if they become mudballs thanks to their sealing nature. Like what @TerraN_EmpirE said, the concept of AR15's easily intaking small amount of mud and getting jammed has been proven to be false. In the examples I mentioned, the AR-style rifles both went through extremely austere environments, ie muddy terrain, and they both did well.

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I'm talking about the mod rifle they are buying. Not even talked about AR-15, mechanical problem or anything... If it was an AK mod rifle it would be the same... or any brand.

All this kind of molded gig full of space letting mud and dirt getting stuck everywhere is a pain to clean and maintain. Will be a pain to clean even more if it have time to dry...

Will continue to work for a time but in a real austere environment when you need to run for cover because of artillery strike, you will not have time to clean it for 2 hours....

Getting gunk into the slots would only be an Issue if the rifle had operating parts in the space under the slots. Soupy muddy water would probably drain out on its own. Fine dirt would pass through or shake off the moment the trigger was pulled and anything else that might stick would just be a hose out away. The Ukrainians have been operating a number of different rifle types in trench conditions. They literally use a pressure washer to clean them up.

LawLeadsToPeace said:

Jams do happen due to dirt and mud getting into the rifle. My point is that AR-style rifles can still perform even if they become mudballs thanks to their sealing nature. Like what @TerraN_EmpirE said, the concept of AR15's easily intaking small amount of mud and getting jammed has been proven to be false. In the examples I mentioned, the AR-style rifles both went through extremely austere environments, ie muddy terrain, and they both did well.

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Agreed. Say what you want about the AR platform, it is battle proven.
Sand is worse than mud, it finds its way everywhere and sticks. If reliability wasn't an issue in Iraq, it'll be fine.

Atomicfrog said:

I'm talking about the mod rifle they are buying. Not even talked about AR-15, mechanical problem or anything... If it was an AK mod rifle it would be the same... or any brand.

All this kind of molded gig full of space letting mud and dirt getting stuck everywhere is a pain to clean and maintain. Will be a pain to clean even more if it have time to dry...

Will continue to work for a time but in a real austere environment when you need to run for cover because of artillery strike, you will not have time to clean it for 2 hours....

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Mate, it's a non-issue. Mud gets on everything but where's there's mud, there's water.
Just dunk said gear into water (even puddles) and shake off. Works for pic rails, boots, plate carriers or anything that doesn't dissolve in water ... which your typical soldier shouldn't.

For barrack cleaning, we hose down everything (even rifles) before we sit down to cleaning and then oiling. Sure, it's a more troublesome process to get the gear back to parade state but really, really a non-issue.

Atomicfrog said:

I'm talking about the mod rifle they are buying. Not even talked about AR-15, mechanical problem or anything... If it was an AK mod rifle it would be the same... or any brand.

All this kind of molded gig full of space letting mud and dirt getting stuck everywhere is a pain to clean and maintain. Will be a pain to clean even more if it have time to dry...

Will continue to work for a time but in a real austere environment when you need to run for cover because of artillery strike, you will not have time to clean it for 2 hours....

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There has been increased interest in the FN SCAR-L MK16 and Mk17 Heavy barrel variant platform with countries using it like Singapore, Belgium, France, Kenya and Ukraine using it. Research done during the SCAR's US trial showed it was better than the M4, shot groupings were accurate. In a 6000 round shoot off in adverse conditions between the M4 and SCAR the M4 had 882 stoppages while the SCAR had 226 stoppages. The big turn off being the multi-feed jams, sometimes even having triple feed jams while feeding ammunition. But this turned out to be the problem of the type of magazine used, polymer magazines appeared to have been causing the feed issues but when used with steel magazines which is what the rifle is usually shipped with it worked flawlessly. Recent reports showed Ukraine soldiers washing their muddy SCAR's off with a pressure hose and they still operated fine.

So maybe the way forward is with the FN SCAR platform who knows.

Dragon of War said:

Recent reports showed Ukraine soldiers washing their muddy SCAR's off with a pressure hose and they still operated fine.

So maybe the way forward is with the FN SCAR platform who knows.

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Nice to have a pressure hose on the field, clearly these setting need one. If you have a good station or barrack to take the time to clean them you are probably okay too. A rifle taking carrying one pound of mud arround the barrel behing that guard because you are stuck in a muddy trench don't help your day for sure.

I've got to say this does not look good from a safety or morale point of view:


6 month patrol?! 2 x 5 month patrol by other V-boats last year? Something is not right.

Heliox said:

Mate, it's a non-issue. Mud gets on everything but where's there's mud, there's water.
Just dunk said gear into water (even puddles) and shake off. Works for pic rails, boots, plate carriers or anything that doesn't dissolve in water ... which your typical soldier shouldn't.

For barrack cleaning, we hose down everything (even rifles) before we sit down to cleaning and then oiling. Sure, it's a more troublesome process to get the gear back to parade state but really, really a non-issue.

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From LARPing, I know that some mud stains never wash off.

But that's about the extent of any real issues with mud and modern rifles.

OTOH;

There have been teething issues with platforms like the SCAR or the new NGSW, but they aren't related to reliability of the firing mechanism.

Maikeru said:

I've got to say this does not look good from a safety or morale point of view:

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6 month patrol?! 2 x 5 month patrol by other V-boats last year? Something is not right.

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I wonder if the Chinese ghost piloted nuclear sub looked like that when it returned to port earlier this month.