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abc123

Junior Member
Registered Member
Hmmm...so te Ocean will be the Braxilians only large flat deck carrier type vessel for some years...perhaps the only one.

we shall see if they go ahead and build a new carrier.

Sad to see Suth Americas about t not have any ficed wing carrier.

But the Sa Paulo is old and could not last forever...and a new carrier is not cheap.
They will get a good deal on the Ocean...but given her construction methods...I do not think she will last all that long either.
But seriously, why would they need one? Considering that most of these countries has no enough Coast Guard OPVs and other patrol crafts, not to mention frigates and other escort vessels, I really don't see the need for carriers.
 

Jeff Head

General
Staff member
Super Moderator
But seriously, why would they need one? Considering that most of these countries has no enough Coast Guard OPVs and other patrol crafts, not to mention frigates and other escort vessels, I really don't see the need for carriers.
Brazil is the largest economy in South America...and they have SLOCs that need to be protected like any other larger power.

That's why they would need such naval forces.

As to whether they can afford it or not is another matter.

As far as I know they still have plans to have the French firm DCNS to design a new carrier for them.

@FORBIN is that still on the table?
 

abc123

Junior Member
Registered Member
Brazil is the largest economy in South America...and they have SLOCs that need to be protected like any other larger power.

That's why they would need such naval forces.

As to whether they can afford it or not is another matter.

As far as I know they still have plans to have the French firm DCNS to design a new carrier for them.

@FORBIN is that still on the table?
OK, fair enough. But, their SLOCs are threatned by who? What country could/would want to blockade Brazil and their trade? Only USA could. What's the real chance that the USA would do that? About zero IMO. Even more important, even if USA want's to do that, can single Brazilian carrier stop that? No.
 

FORBIN

Lieutenant General
Registered Member
Brazil is the largest economy in South America...and they have SLOCs that need to be protected like any other larger power.

That's why they would need such naval forces.

As to whether they can afford it or not is another matter.

As far as I know they still have plans to have the French firm DCNS to design a new carrier for them.

@FORBIN is that still on the table?
Initilay 10 years ago in 2005 about we have plans for a 2nd CV " P-A/Porte-Avions 2 " 2nd carrier not nuclear with British but finished with economic/financial crisis of 2008 after DCNS had an project mainly a model sometimes exposed but nothing serious for Brasil a carrier as it want i think about 3 € billions you add about 500 millions for a nuclear in general they want about 20 % in more
 

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
OK, fair enough. But, their SLOCs are threatned by who? What country could/would want to blockade Brazil and their trade? Only USA could. What's the real chance that the USA would do that? About zero IMO. Even more important, even if USA want's to do that, can single Brazilian carrier stop that? No.
President of the Republic ( of Brazil), Fernando Henrique Cardoso
Speech by the President of the Republic, Fernando Henrique Cardoso, at the ceremony of transfer of subordination of the "São Paulo" aerodrome to the Brazilian naval operating sector - Porto de Santos / SP



Today is a very special day for the Brazilian Navy.

The transfer of the "São Paulo" Ship to the Navy Operational Sector adds to our Naval Power an important expansion of its capacity to defend Brazilian interests at sea.

A country like ours, possessing an extensive coastline, with more than 7 thousand kilometers of coast, requires a Naval Power compatible with its stature in the international scene.

Today, as yesterday, the Brazilian State is anxious to implement concrete measures that offer the nation the guarantee of respect for its sovereignty.

We are and always will be a nation that fights for peace, which does not mean being able to dispense with modern armed forces, trained and endowed with adequate dissuasive potential.

Few countries, even today, have the capacity to operate efficiently on the high seas.

It is important that Brazil continues to be one of them.

The acquisition of this aerodrome was an opportunity to replace the "Minas Gerais", which provided so many good services to the country.

Its more than 40 years of operation, its demonstrated resistance at sea and the outstanding missions it has accomplished will not be forgotten or discontinued.

Brazil was concerned to continue the aviation on board and the value that the "Foch" represented for the French Navy represented safe credentials for its choice as heir to the traditions of the valiant "Minas Gerais".

The technical conditions of the current combat aircraft required the acquisition of a compatible floating platform.

Modernity has imposed itself.

The beginning of the operational life of "São Paulo", associated with the acquisition of the AF-1 combat aircraft, represents a new phase of the Brazilian Naval Force.

His transfer to the Fleet strengthens the operational capability of fixed-wing aircraft. It thus lends our Navy the projection and stature that the Nation expects of it.

Almost all of our foreign trade depends on sea routes, more than three quarters of Brazilian oil is extracted from the continental shelf; without mentioning the significant potential of coastal waters for fishing. These facts, in and of themselves, demonstrate the need for a modern, trained and efficient navy.

We are a large country, with 4 million and 200 thousand square kilometers of sea area, comparable to the extension of the Legal Amazon. We have to preserve it for future generations.

In particular, I want to address the officers and sailors who will be responsible for leading the "São Paulo" to the fulfillment of their missions.

I know the professionalism, dedication and, why not say, the sacrifices that life at sea imposes on all who face their challenges.

Your motivation demanded of the President of the Republic the efforts to equip the Navy with material means compatible with the human wealth of its staff and the scope of its constitutional destination.

It is no easy task to direct resources for defense in the face of so many pressing social demands, but it was my duty to respond to the tireless dedication of all masters.

This was how, with satisfaction, I authorized the acquisition of "São Paulo" and followed the process of its receipt, which took place in record time (two months) and in an atmosphere of cordiality and professionalism between the French and Brazilian Marines.

This magnificent ship, the entry into operation of its high-performance aircraft, the fulfillment of its tasks, the extension of our navy's ability to defend the interests of the country, all offer us with justified pride.

Its 32,000 tons, its history of combat, its soul and traditions, that have meant so much to the French sailors, now add to the values of the Navy of Brazil.

Yesterday "Foch", proudly today, "São Paulo". São Paulo, governor, our land.

And by honoring this ship with the flag and the bow, that symbolizes, as you said, the feeling of all of us, of national integration. This ship carried the glorious name of "Minas Gerais", its predecessor. Today it is the "São Paulo", the gateway of any other State of the Nation, with the same feeling of Brazilianness. But we, from São Paulo, are very grateful to have the Brazilian flag here in the bow of our ship "São Paulo".

And in honoring São Paulo, which is what the Navy does to us, and through its governor, I did not want to give a last word saying that, initially, I had thought to bring this ship to hand it over to Governor Mario Covas. Today, I give to those who succeed in an admirable way. I feel proud of São Paulo and Brazil.

Thank you very much
It as Brasil not other powers that made the choice to buy the Foch back in 2000 and they deemed it a strategic necessity to replace the Previous carrier the Minas Gerais, Ironically one of there historic alternatives was to build something not to diffrent from the HMS Ocean. Ultimately the Foch proved to big to expensive. so now they are going to Ocean. Ocean is closer to an LHA then a CV type which might work better for the Brazilians, Although it's liley they will loose the ability to operate A4 off the deck, The Brazilian navy has plenty of helicopters and a Marine corps.
 
Nov 8, 2017
Oct 18, 2017
while now
Babcock, BMT Sign Cooperation Agreement to Develop Future Surface Ships
Posted: November 7, 2017
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OK but Sep 26, 2017

LOL it's getting complicated
... indeed ... Engineering firm names preferred team for building British frigates
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Engineering specialist Babcock International has named the industry team it hopes will secure a contract to build at least five Type 31e general purpose frigates for the British Royal Navy. The announcement coincided with the visit of the new British defense secretary, Gavin Williamson, to the company’s shipyard at Applefore, southwest England, on Jan 8.

The Team 31 industry partnership led by Babcock includes warship designer BMT, mission systems developer Thales, and shipbuilding companies Ferguson Marine and Harland & Wolff.

A Babcock spokesman said Team 31 would be bidding “a blend” of the warship designs available from itself and BMT.

Babcock launched its Arrowhead design at the DSEI defense show in London last September, while BMT has had its Venator-110 frigate on the drawing board for a while.

Apart from the Arrowhead and Venator-110, Team 31 has other options open to it. The final choice of platform it will propose likely depends on the outcome of a value-management process — now entering its final phase — where the MoD and the rival bidders are exploring the possible trade-offs between cost and capability of the Type 31e.

Babcock, BMT and Thales have all been involved in the design and assembly of the £6.2 billion (U.S. $8.4 billion) program to build two 65,000-ton aircraft carriers for the Navy. The warships have been assembled at Babcock’s Rosyth dockyard from modules built at facilities around the U.K.

Babcock’s CEO Archie Bethel said the Team 31 partnership will allow the key lessons from the aircraft carrier program to move forward.

“We firmly believe that our combined skills can deliver an affordable and effective Type 31e frigate program for the Royal Navy and offer something new and exciting in the export market. With a high degree of UK content and the use of innovative technologies, we believe that our approach will deliver real benefit,” Bethel said.

Williamson’s tour of the Appledore yard, where Babcock is building an offshore patrol vessel for Ireland’s naval force, is the latest in a series of visits — made first by then-Defence Secretary Michael Fallon and now his successor — to potential contenders for the Type 31e deal.

Fallon, who was forced to resign in November over an alleged sex scandal, was a champion of the Type 31e program. Industry executives in Britain say Williamson’s visit could signal continued top-level ministerial support, even though it seems the government will delay a decision on whether to provide additional funding so the MoD can avert a series of damaging capability and program cuts and to bring the defense budget under control.

One executive, who spoke to Defense News on condition of anonymity, said he’d like to see Williamson be “explicit” in his support for the Type 31e. “Everything is up for grabs with the current budget pressures, but so far I have been impressed by the way the MoD is holding to the Type 31e schedule,” he said.

The prize for the winning team is a contract to build five frigates for the Royal Navy, with the first warship scheduled to be handed over as soon as 2023, when the first of the Type 23 warships it replaces is due to be pensioned off.

Type 31e and the more complex Type 26 anti-submarine warfare frigate are to replace the 13-strong Type 23 fleet. A £3.7 billion deal for the first three Type 26 frigates was awarded to BAE Systems in June.

If the Royal Navy is to stand a chance of getting its first Type 31e on schedule, there is no room for program slippage.

The MoD has capped the cost of the contract at £250 million per ship.

The Conservative government has made a vague promise of additional Type 31e frigates for the Royal Navy in the 2030s, dependent upon the program’s success, and it also hopes to secure a foothold in what is already a crowded export market for light frigates as part of the national
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launched in late 2016.

The MoD issued a request for information to industry last year and received 20 expressions of interest, including one from a Cammell Laird team involving but not led by BAE Systems.

The MoD launched the frigate program last September and is currently in its pre-procurement phase.

Defense procurement minister Harriett Baldwin told Parliament on Nov. 29: “We plan to formally start the competitive process in 2018 and award a single design and build contract in 2019, allowing us to trial and accept the first ship into service in 2023.”
while I'm wondering what armament a quarter of a billion pounds UK-built warship gets
 

abc123

Junior Member
Registered Member
Buying 40 years old ex-French aircraft carrier and using as old A-4 as airgroup is just reheating of Brazilian ( Latin American ) myth that they are some sort of great world ( naval ) power. And they are not.
Again, Brazil has neither need to have an aircraft carrier ( because they have no need to project power across ocean ) nor conditions ( money ) to do so.
Anything larger than a frigate and eventally LPD is waste of money IMHO for their navy. Especially in situation where you have no destroyers for AD of the carriers, no fighters for air defence of fleet, no modern frigates ( old Type 22 isn't modern ) for ASW etc. A house is built from the foundations, not from the roof.
That means, first IPVs, then OPVs, then frigates, then LPDs, then destroyers, then LPHs, then SSNs, and only then a carrier. Not the other way around.

Eereything else is a case of getting the ship and then, finding a role for her, needed or not.
 
Oct 23, 2017
didn't know it's 27 of them
UK nuclear submarine dismantling project makes progress October 23, 2017
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now noticed "Disposal of the eventual total of 27 boats will cost at least £10.4bn over 25 years and continue into the 2040s." etc.:
The painfully slow process of dismantling ex-Royal Navy nuclear submarines
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real world, huh?


The flotilla of retired attack submarines in number 3 Basin in Devonport, continues to grow. Three more T-class submarines will decommission and join them before 2023, with 4 large Vanguard class to follow between 2028-34. There are now more boats laid up in Devonport alone (13) than there are in entire active submarine flotilla (10).
 

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
British Army poised to retire last Lynx

  • 11 JANUARY, 2018
  • SOURCE: FLIGHTGLOBAL.COM


By Peter Foster

British Army operations with the AgustaWestland Lynx are poised to come to an end, with the Joint Helicopter Command to host a farewell event for the utility type on 16 January.

Based at the Royal Air Force's Odiham site in Hampshire, the Army Air Corps 657 Sqn is the last UK unit to employ the Lynx. The type was first fielded in its AH1 standard in August 1978, and subsequently involved in operations by the service in nations including Afghanistan, Bosnia, Iraq and Sierra Leone.

The army's last upgraded and skid-equipped Lynx AH7s were retired in July 2015, leaving its extensively modernised AH9As to serve on while its replacement Leonardo Helicopters AW159 Wildcat inventory was increased in size.

Flight Fleets Analyzer records 22 of the new-generation type as being in active use with the AAC, with another four in storage. The Royal Navy also uses the type, and ended operations with its legacy Lynx HMA8 airframes in March 2017.

Following the disbandment last year of the AAC's 9 Regiment at Dishforth in North Yorkshire, 657 Sqn retained up to 12 AH9As, from an original complement of 22 upgraded examples.



Crown Copyright

After its Rolls-Royce Gem-engined Lynx AH7s performed poorly in the hot and high operating conditions of Afghanistan towards the end of the last decade, the UK Ministry of Defence initiated an urgent operational requirement to re-engine and extensively update the army's wheeled AH9-variant. A contract worth approximately £130 million ($175 million) was signed in late 2008, covering an initial 10 airframes.

Enhancements included replacing the type's Gem engines with the more powerful LHTEC CTS800-4Ns already selected for the Wildcat, along with its main gear box, top deck structure and rear fuselage.

AgustaWestland also integrated improved avionics and an L-3 Wescam MX-15 electro-optical/infrared sensor. The type also gained secure radios and mountings to enable it to carry twin .50cal machine guns in its rear cabin.

The first modernised AH9A made its flight debut in September 2009, and the army's lead examples were deployed to Afghanistan aboard an RAF Boeing C-17 strategic transport in May 2010.

A follow-on contract for the remaining 12 updated aircraft was signed in October the same year, and by December 2011 – as the last was redelivered for operational use – the type had accumulated more than 4,000h in-theatre.

One example was lost during a crash in Afghanistan in April 2014, which killed all five personnel on board a routine flight.



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With the army having halted Lynx AH7 operations with the tube-launched, optically-tracked, wire-guided missile in 2000, the AH9A was employed in roles including transport and intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance, with the AAC's Boeing/Westland Apache AH1 attack helicopters assuming strike duties.

Additional reporting by Craig Hoyle in London
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FORBIN

Lieutenant General
Registered Member
After the French frigate recently Europeans in the business :cool:

Royal Navy frigate HMS Sutherland starts Asia Pacific deployment

Royal Navy frigate HMS Sutherland and her crew started a somewhat out-of-the-ordinary deployment on January 9, getting underway from their homeport at HM Naval Base Devonport.

What is special about the Type 23 frigate’s deployment is that Sutherland will be the first Royal Navy vessel to operate in Asia Pacific in recent years.

Her deployment to the region was announced by the new UK defense secretary Gavin Williamson in November 2017 who noted that the frigate’s deployment was a “demonstration of the UK’s commitment to the peace and prosperity in the region at a time when North Korea’s illegal weapons program is causing global concern”.

The frigate will be taking part in training and exercises together with US, Japanese and South Korean warships in the Korean Peninsula region.

Sister ship HMS Argyll will deploy to Japan to take part in exercises in December 2018 following participation in a Five Power Defence Arrangements exercise with Australia, New Zealand, Singapore and Malaysia earlier in the year.

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