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Scratch

Captain
I must admit the following has actually completely escaped me so far. But good to see the RN will get the numbers. With only 8 instead of 13 new Type26 vessels built, according to the latest SDSR, there will be another, lighter class, called the Type31, making up the remaining 5 vessels.

So with the Type 26 / Global Combat Ship the RN will get a 7000 to 8000t ASW-centric multi purpose destroyer (called firgate) with decent armament, great sensors and space for up to 90 embarked troops.
And then, afterwards, a smaller GP frigate. That's my understanding so far.

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New Royal Navy general purpose frigate to be known as Type 31
By Andrew Chuter, Defense News 10:33 a.m. EST February 12, 2016

LONDON — The British Government sprung a surprise Nov. 23 when it launched its 2015 strategic defence and security review announcing it was to build a new class of general purpose frigates for the Royal Navy.

Now, three months later, the process of launching a concept study is underway and the Royal Navy has decided on Type 31 as the number for the warship, according to sources familiar with the naming process.

Speculation the Royal Navy would opt for Type 31 for the new warship has been around almost since the SDSR was published but sources here said the decision has now been made.

A spokeswoman for the Ministry of Defence declined to confirm or deny whether the new general purpose frigate had been allocated a type number.

Replacing the Type 23 frigate starting around 2022, the 7,000 ton Type 26 was to have operated in a general purpose role as well as undertake its primary anti-submarine warfare mission.

The Type 31 program emerged as part of an SDSR announcement cutting numbers of the new Type 26 anti-submarine warfare frigates to be built from a planned 13 to eight.

The new class of lighter, cheaper, general purpose warships will make up the difference in numbers and bring frigate strength back up to the 13 originally planned.

The SDSR even held out the prospect of ordering more frigates for the Royal Navy in the 2030s, a pledge few are holding their breath over at the moment.

The review said the lighter, more flexible warship would also have a better chance of securing export orders for Britain's naval industry.

Splitting the frigate requirement is effectively a reversion to an earlier scheme to build anti-submarine warfare frigates alongside a more medium-weight general purpose warship. That idea was dropped several years ago in favor of the one-size-fits-all approach of the Type 26.

Details on the new general purpose frigate, including the likely timelines for implementation of the various phases, remain scarce.

“The timetable for the procurement of the general purpose frigate program has yet to be determined. Work on the program will be scoped initially during the concept study outlined in the SDSR,” the MoD spokeswomen said.

Sources said several hull options were being considered, including a cut-down version of the Type 26 and foreign designs.

Details on the way forward for the general purpose frigate program are likely to start emerging when the government takes the wraps off a new national shipbuilding strategy scheduled to be rolled out later this year.
 

asif iqbal

Brigadier
HMS Dauntless showed off her prowess to one of Pakistan’s top Naval officers during a fact-finding visit to the UK.

The Type 45 destroyer hosted Admiral Muhammad Zakaullah, the Pakistan Navy’s Chief of Naval Staff, as part of a day spent in Portsmouth.

Admiral Zakaullah was given a tour of HMS Dauntless including the bridge and operations room and inspected a guard of honour on the flight deck.

The ship’s Commanding Officer, Commander Charles Guy, said: “It has been an honour to host Admiral Zakaullah on board HMS Dauntless to show just a few of the capabilities that the modern Royal Navy can bring to bear in oceans around the world.

HMS Dauntless showed off her prowess to one of Pakistan’s top Naval officers during a fact-finding visit to the UK.

The Type 45 destroyer hosted Admiral Muhammad Zakaullah, the Pakistan Navy’s Chief of Naval Staff, as part of a day spent in Portsmouth.

Admiral Zakaullah was given a tour of HMS Dauntless including the bridge and operations room and inspected a guard of honour on the flight deck.

The ship’s Commanding Officer, Commander Charles Guy, said: “It has been an honour to host Admiral Zakaullah on board HMS Dauntless to show just a few of the capabilities that the modern Royal Navy can bring to bear in oceans around the world.

  • HMS Dauntless hosts top Pakistan Naval Officer
  • Admiral Zakaullah visited NCHQ, HMS Excellent and HMNB Portsmouth as part of a UK visit. His tour included HMS Dauntless


  • Admiral Zakaullah visited NCHQ, HMS Excellent and HMNB Portsmouth as part of a UK visit. His tour included HMS Dauntless


  • Vice Admiral Sir Philip Jones( left) Admiral Muhammad Zakaullah (right) at Navy Command Headquarters Whale Island

  • It has been an honour to host Admiral Zakaullah on board HMS Dauntless

Commander Charles Guy
“The Pakistani Navy and Royal Navy have often operated in partnership and visits such as this serve to strengthen those working relationships for the future.”

Before visiting Dauntless Admiral Zakaullah met senior officers at Navy Command Headquarters at Whale Island and his day in Portsmouth was rounded off with a tour of HMS Victory.

Fleet Commander, Vice Admiral Sir Philip Jones, said: “It was a pleasure to welcome Admiral Zakaullah to Navy Command headquarters and an excellent opportunity to discuss the good relations between our two navies and an increasing level of productive interaction between our ships.”

His five days in the UK also included visits to the Ministry of Defence in Whitehall where he met First Sea Lord Admiral Sir George Zambellas and discussed how the two navies worked together on global operations, including tackling piracy.

The visit culminated in a look round HMS Queen Elizabeth – the Navy’s new aircraft carrier under construction in Rosyth

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Jeff Head

General
Staff member
Super Moderator
I must admit the following has actually completely escaped me so far. But good to see the RN will get the numbers. With only 8 instead of 13 new Type26 vessels built, according to the latest SDSR, there will be another, lighter class, called the Type31, making up the remaining 5 vessels.

So with the Type 26 / Global Combat Ship the RN will get a 7000 to 8000t ASW-centric multi purpose destroyer (called firgate) with decent armament, great sensors and space for up to 90 embarked troops.
And then, afterwards, a smaller GP frigate. That's my understanding so far.

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This is more rubbish.

By the time they research, develop, design and build the Type 31 FFG, and then only build five of them...they will have spent as much as they would have spent in building the last five Type 26 FFGs.

In addition, over their life, maintaining two completely different classes will simply add to the cost.

Finally, it will also probably drive up the cost of the eight Type 26 FFGs since they are not building all 13.

I swear, when I see decisions like this, IMHO, one is left with the distinct impression that they have poppycock for brains.
 

Obi Wan Russell

Jedi Master
VIP Professional
The type 26/31 split seems to make no sense... in an RN only context. I think we have to read between the lines a bit. Like most previous chancellors Osbourne knows the price of everything and the value of nothing, but he's smart enough to know it too. He was obviously looking to cut the RN's frigate programme back from 13 to 8 ships (as many had predicted) purely on cost grounds, but is also aware of the flack he'd get for it, so he has given the RN a compromise: I believe he has offered the RN a deal, since they have failed to win any export orders as yet for the T26 (which would have helped offset the cost of the last five hulls) he has told them to come up with a new cheaper export friendly design more likely to be sold abroad, and provided it wins orders then the RN will get the five hulls it needs (possibly even more).

The T31s will I expect incorporate a lot of equipment common to other RN warships e.g. T45 and T26, even QEC so that will offset some of the maintenance costs (something that has long been RN practice (as with other Navies), and given the current and foreseeable future a relatively cheap affordable balanced GP Frigate is in principle the right way to go IMHO. How affordable they can make it without compromising its effectiveness remains to be seen. We've done it before though, with the Leander class, so something along those lines in spirit is what we need.

My own shopping list of (UK) requirements would be:
Type 997 (Artisan) radar,
1x 5inch gun (our selected replacement for the 4.5inch mk8),
Sea Ceptor SAM,
Phalanx CIWS,
Hangar and flight deck for at least one Merlin though -2 Lynx wildcat normally deployed,
accommodation for up to 60 RM Commandos
Sonar

All of the above loosely fit into the original T26GP requirement, but obviously foreign buyers found the package unpalatable. Re packaging the above into something more acceptable on the world market is the main challenge, and if we can do that the RN benefits through hull numbers.
 

Scratch

Captain
My own shopping list of (UK) requirements would be:
Type 997 (Artisan) radar,
1x 5inch gun (our selected replacement for the 4.5inch mk8),
Sea Ceptor SAM,
Phalanx CIWS,
Hangar and flight deck for at least one Merlin though -2 Lynx wildcat normally deployed,
accommodation for up to 60 RM Commandos
Sonar
I would have believed that on cost grounds the affordability oriented T31 will likely forgo the Type 997 radar, type 2087 sonar and the CAMM weapons system primarily.
Stuffing all those high end sensors in a smaller hull would hardly save any money, would it?

So it can be a scaled down hull without the AAW & ASW focused equipment. Internationally, I wonder who could be persuaded to buy such a package.
Maybe a buyer looking for an actually frigate sized vessel with a decent AAW or ASW capability.
 

Obi Wan Russell

Jedi Master
VIP Professional
I don't personally regard any of those systems as 'luxury' but 'basic and essential', especially for the GP Frigate role. The T"^GP is exactly what the RN wants, but Osbourne won't authorise anything like it unless the RN can win export orders. Thus the Type 31 has come into being. expect the RN to try and influence the design to keep it as close in capability to T26GP as possible, whilst keeping it attractive to foreign buyers. Moving away from the systems I outlined above will push the support costs up rather than down, as Jeff Head pointed out earlier lack of commonality with the rest of the RN will be expensive. Artisan is fast becoming the standard fit for RN ships (QEC, T23/26, HMS Ocean, LPDs) so providing anything else would mean a separate logistics and support network for those five ships (ie more expensive to use and support). Crews have to be trained to use these systems and it's easier to have one system used fleetwide rather than two duplicating each other.
 

FORBIN

Lieutenant General
Registered Member
I have see 4/5000 t for armament in missiles about half of Type 26 : main VLS with 8 cell's and 24 Sea Sceptor, decent.

Same things as new French Frigate " FTI " after Aquitaine class.

And also French Army move soon for 2 big Divisions as British Army ( more big and the 2 with active personnals ), two similar things !
 
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asif iqbal

Brigadier
With 6 x DDG and 13 x FFG that is only 19 warships more or less a joke !

That's about 1/3 of the fleet RN had during Falklands campaign in 1982

With the ever increasing missions and requirements not to mention wars that is simply not enough

There is no "critical mass" in the navy and all it takes is one breakdown or one damaged warships and the entire plan will fall into danger

What RN needs is another class of FFG and in large numbers my list would be

12 x DDG
13 x FFG
And 8-10 further lighter FFG

That retains around 33-35 warships just enough !
 

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