Type 95 Assault Rifle II

Re: Type 95 assault rifle

plawolf said:

The PLA has always gone out of its way to make its standard issue kit non-compatible with foreign standard issue equipment.

The choice of the 5.8mm was to make it different from NATO and Russian standard small cal. as much as it was because of the 5.8's own ballistic properties.

The PLA has always been a defensively oriented force, and they do not want any invaders to be able to easily use captured Chinese weapons or supplies.

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I guess the cry out in CERTAIN COUNTRIES of urge the use of 6.8mm rounds, is not an issue of "gone out of its way", in your opinion?

Re: Type 95 assault rifle

Interesting they either did not test it out beyond 15 yards, or more likely, did not publish the results of longer ranged tests as it was not quite so impressive.

Red dots and holographics are better in urban environments becomes of the better visibility and quicker reaction times they allow, but at medium ranges, they offer questionable benefits over good iron sights. At long ranges, you are far better off with a powered scope.

Which is funnily enough why you tend to see PAP SWAT teams using them whereas PLA regulars have powered scopes if they are using optics. Different tools for different missions.

Are the expensive sights something nice and cool to have? Sure. But do they give you an overwhelming advantage, not so much, and certainly not enough to justify the silly costs.

Re: Type 95 assault rifle

Red___Sword said:

I guess the cry out in CERTAIN COUNTRIES of urge the use of 6.8mm rounds, is not an issue of "gone out of its way", in your opinion?

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Im not sure I understand what you are trying to say here...

Re: Type 95 assault rifle

plawolf said:

Interesting they either did not test it out beyond 15 yards, or more likely, did not publish the results of longer ranged tests as it was not quite so impressive.

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Actually Wolf I don't think they tested beyond 15 yards because They were not using rifles or carbines but this was a pistol test. and the school in question caters too Criminal justice as such I think they were using Glock 22's the norm for American law enforcement at the average ranges for a handgun encounter.

And at extended ranges Red dots and HWS still offer an advantage they have even been seen mounted on sniper weapons because of the faster target engagement speed.

I guess the cry out in CERTAIN COUNTRIES of urge the use of 6.8mm rounds, is not an issue of "gone out of its way", in your opinion?

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Translation. You are not hearing the call in the US for switching too 6.8 SPC.

Re: Type 95 assault rifle

So for QBZ-95 series to come with their own low-powered optical sights (though not fixed like AUG or SAR-21) is both an advance and a matter of necessity.

Re: Type 95 assault rifle

TerraN_EmpirE said:

Actually Wolf I don't think they tested beyond 15 yards because They were not using rifles or carbines but this was a pistol test. and the school in question caters too Criminal justice as such I think they were using Glock 22's the norm for American law enforcement at the average ranges for a handgun encounter.

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15 feet is pretty short for even handguns. They are good up to 50m minimum. And interesting enough, do we see red dots, or perish the thought, holographic sights being fitted to handguns despite those results do you?

And at extended ranges Red dots and HWS still offer an advantage they have even been seen mounted on sniper weapons because of the faster target engagement speed.

Translation. You are not hearing the call in the US for switching too 6.8 SPC.

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I have heard, I just do not understand what point he was trying to make with that.

Re: Type 95 assault rifle

MwRYum said:

So for QBZ-95 series to come with their own low-powered optical sights (though not fixed like AUG or SAR-21) is both an advance and a matter of necessity.

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It would definitely be an improvement, but not a necessity.

Re: Type 95 assault rifle

One intereting thing I noticed recently is that the experience in afghanistan and Iraq is shifting the emphasis onto long range again in the west again. 5.45 russian and 5.56 nato just doesn't have the range and the punch.
hence the efforts by SOCOM to adopt 6.8 mm Remington SPC.

How is china responding to that? 5.8mm reportly has opted for slightly better penetration at slightly longer range than 5.56. but still not as good as let's 7.62x54 Russian Rifle round or the 7.62x51 NATO.

One thing I noticed the old 6.5x50 mm ariska (the one in the IJA type 38 bolt action rifle) round is actually very well suited as an intermediate cartriage round. It was considered underpowered vs its contemporaries, 7.92x57 mauser, .30-06,.303 etc. but still had a good range.

It has good enough punch at range but not too much recoil as a full rifle round.
wonder if one can modernized the round, cut down on the loading a bit and make it into a "universal round". (assault, rifle, and Squad MG may be even medium MG), I donno, something like a 6.5x45?

Interestingly the other 6.5mm modern round, the 6.5 mm Grendal was also interested by SOCOM.

Re: Type 95 assault rifle

plawolf said:

15 feet is pretty short for even handguns. They are good up to 50m minimum. And interesting enough, do we see red dots, or perish the thought, holographic sights being fitted to handguns despite those results do you?

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Actually Yes.

Tactical weapons magazine. said:

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The AMU demonstrated the first group of pistols to the Marine Corps at Quantico and various U.S. SOCOM units at both Ft. Bragg and other locations. The pistols were very well received and inspired some feedback. During the testing, the concepts were expanded and other accessories were incorporated in the tests. Three different slide configurations were developed to improve deployment of the suppressed pistol. These are equipped with iron sights that are then supplemented with a slide that mounts a Docter red-dot sight in the rear dovetail. A third slide features a short Picatinny rail that is mounted on the top of the slide, forward of the ejection port. This configuration retains both the front and rear iron sight while allowing an electronic sight to be used.

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That article is about two years old. the new offerings too US buyers also include such options. the main issue that kept them away was size and recoil however with Specter Dorctor, the Aimpoint micro T, Eotech EXPS3 series, Trijicon RMR, Leupold delta point and Insight MRD are small enough and rugged enough too do the job pistol mounted Red dots are on the rise in the sporting and special ops community. A number of pistol smiths now offer such mods and for years Sports shooters used C-more dot sights on custom makes for completions. Large Caliber Revolvers and semi autos offer mounting for low fixed magnification sights as well.
My primary goal though was too point out that there is every reason for them too be mounted on the Qbz95 I see no reason other then cost for not.

I.e. Your slightly off target. the 6.8 Rem is a better barrier breaker however 6.5 has better range. 6.8 works better in closer ranges up too about 500 yards well 6.5 can cast out farther the a 1000 some have been pushing the Grendel as a replacement for 556 and some 7.62 in the Us.
China seemed too be aiming the 5.8 in the same way building the QBZ 95 assault rifle, QBB 95 support weapon, QBU 88 DMR and QJY 88 GPMG trouble is the round is lacking in the range of a proper GPMG and as a result I think in the next few years they are going too have too offer a new 7.62x54MM MG.

Re: Type 95 assault rifle

TerraN_EmpirE said:

Actually Yes.


I.e. Your slightly off target. the 6.8 Rem is a better barrier breaker however 6.5 has better range. 6.8 works better in closer ranges up too about 500 yards well 6.5 can cast out farther the a 1000 some have been pushing the Grendel as a replacement for 556 and some 7.62 in the Us.
China seemed too be aiming the 5.8 in the same way building the QBZ 95 assault rifle, QBB 95 support weapon, QBU 88 DMR and QJY 88 GPMG trouble is the round is lacking in the range of a proper GPMG and as a result I think in the next few years they are going too have too offer a new 7.62x54MM MG.

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yeah I know 6.8 vs 6.5 is a trade mostly in range and punch.

seems QJY 88 is now used mainly as a light MG at squad level, filling the role QBB 95 support weapon originally as intended .
from the the little we can gather from the training videos etc.

GPMG role is filled by a 7.62x54mm weapon, reinforced to the lower level as needed. seems to me PLA light infantry still emphasis manuever rather than the 2-LMG firepower based solution.