Turkey Military News, Reports, Data, etc.

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AndrewJ

Junior Member
Registered Member
Deino said:
The point is not the size, it is the mix of vastly different types ranging now from Flankers (Su-27 + Su-30), F-16, T-50I and soon (or planned) Rafales, J-10C (or J-10A+), F-15X, KF-21 and now Kaan!

It makes simply NO SENSE AT ALL.
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In this chaotic world, small countries buy jets from multiple separate sources will become increasingly common. They're considering more of cross political protection, rather than weapons' integration or logistic complexity. Cross political protection means they're less likely to be attacked, aka look more neutral, when one side launches a war against another side. These countries don't want to choose solely on any side politically, so does their military equipment. So don't feel too strange/confused on this.

Here's Ayi's view. More and more countries are going to have eastern & western major weapons simultaneously. Meanwhile, Egypt & Indonesia, are expected to collect the most diversified jets of all !! :p

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mack8

Junior Member
So apparently Indonesia ordered 48 Kaans with delivery in 48 months, and apparently with an indigenous turkish engine to boot. Imo there is no way this will happen by 2029, not only the engine is not even in testing yet afaik but the actual Kaan testing hasn't even properly started yet. So yeah there's a lot of braggadoccio here and it is puzzling why Indonesia would go for this. KF-21 would make much more sense for that timeframe, not to mention the elephants in the room, J-35 or Su-57.
 
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Radonislav

Junior Member
Registered Member
mack8 said:
So apparently Indonesia ordered 48 Kaans with delivery in 48 months, and apparently with an indigenous turkish engine to boot. Imo there is no way this will happen by 2029, not only the engine is not even in testing yet afaik but the actual Kaan testing hasn't even properly started yet. So yeah there's a lot of braggadoccio here and it is puzzling why Indonesia would go for this. KF-21 would make much more sense for that timeframe, not to mention the elephants in the room, J-35 or Su-57.
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It is 120 months
 
M

MRDEFENCE

New Member
Registered Member
AndrewJ said:
In this chaotic world, small countries buy jets from multiple separate sources will become increasingly common. They're considering more of cross political protection, rather than weapons' integration or logistic complexity. Cross political protection means they're less likely to be attacked, aka look more neutral, when one side launches a war against another side. These countries don't want to choose solely on any side politically, so does their military equipment. So don't feel too strange/confused on this.

Here's Ayi's view. More and more countries are going to have eastern & western major weapons simultaneously. Meanwhile, Egypt & Indonesia, are expected to collect the most diversified jets of all !! :p

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
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That's good approach, but it's just logistical nightmare to maintain all different types of aircraft. If the countries doesn't send you the needed support all the time if you are in the middle of war then it will temporary be useful only. That's why having independence and own self defence industry it's better.
 
sequ

sequ

Major
Registered Member
Some more details on the agreement:

- It's a MoU*
- 48+12 Kaan as option
- Will be produced in Turkiye
- First delivery in the 48th month (June 2029?)
- Delivery finished in 84 months according to SSB (June 2032?)
- Delivery to start in the '30s with indigenous engine according to TA
- Total value between $12B and $15B

IMO delivery of 48 Kaan within 84 months is only possible with F110. Otherwise they should add several years in the case of the TF35000. Or it could be a mixed fleet.

Other things are IMO open to negotiations such as (part) production, final testing, ToT, MRO services, weapons packages, training (simulators), integration of indigenous systems, exchange of engineers etc.

*Although it's just a MoU at the moment, it looks like there approval at the highest level of both countries, both presidents want this agreement come to fruition. Normally such MoU are signed by just ministers and/or CEO's. This one was overseen by President Prabowo himself and President Erdogan immediately tweeted about it. It could also be a means to pressure the Koreans.

Anyway, time will tell.

1749649183922.png
 
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sequ

sequ

Major
Registered Member
sequ said:
Some more details on the agreement:

- It's a MoU*
- 48+12 Kaan as option
- Will be produced in Turkiye
- First delivery in the 48th month (June 2029?)
- Delivery finished in 84 months according to SSB (June 2032?)
- Delivery to start in the '30s with indigenous engine according to TA
- Total value between $12B and $15B

IMO delivery of 48 Kaan within 84 months is only possible with F110. Otherwise they should add several years in the case of the TF35000. Or it could be a mixed fleet.

Other things are IMO open to negotiations such as (part) production, final testing, ToT, MRO services, weapons packages, training (simulators), integration of indigenous systems, exchange of engineers etc.

*Although it's just a MoU at the moment, it looks like there approval at the highest level of both countries, both presidents want this agreement come to fruition. Normally such MoU are signed by just ministers and/or CEO's. This one was overseen by President Prabowo himself and President Erdogan immediately tweeted about it. It could also be a means to pressure the Koreans.

Anyway, time will tell.

View attachment 154083
Click to expand...


To add to this, T0 to start this year:

 
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sequ

sequ

Major
Registered Member
sequ said:
Some more details on the agreement:

- It's a MoU*
- 48+12 Kaan as option
- Will be produced in Turkiye
- First delivery in the 48th month (June 2029?)
- Delivery finished in 84 months according to SSB (June 2032?)
- Delivery to start in the '30s with indigenous engine according to TA
- Total value between $12B and $15B

IMO delivery of 48 Kaan within 84 months is only possible with F110. Otherwise they should add several years in the case of the TF35000. Or it could be a mixed fleet.

Other things are IMO open to negotiations such as (part) production, final testing, ToT, MRO services, weapons packages, training (simulators), integration of indigenous systems, exchange of engineers etc.

*Although it's just a MoU at the moment, it looks like there approval at the highest level of both countries, both presidents want this agreement come to fruition. Normally such MoU are signed by just ministers and/or CEO's. This one was overseen by President Prabowo himself and President Erdogan immediately tweeted about it. It could also be a means to pressure the Koreans.

Anyway, time will tell.

View attachment 154083
Click to expand...

sequ said:
To add to this, T0 to start this year:
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Depending on when T0 starts (they aim it for this year), the first delivery will start in T84 (June 2032 onwards) and deliveries to be finished by T120 (June 2035 onwards). That's a production/delivery rate of 16 per year. The Indonesian Kaans will be equipped with TF35000.


Edit: TEI confirms TF35000

"We are very proud that our TF35000 engine, which we developed together with TRMOTOR as TEI under the leadership of our Presidency of Defense Industries, will power our National Combat Aircraft KAAN. Within the scope of the agreement signed by Turkish Aerospace Industries with Indonesia, 48 KAAN combat aircraft will be delivered with our national engine. May this export success, which is an important indicator of the global power of our defense industry, led by our President with his vision, be beneficial to our country and nation."

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1933042408368881842
 
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zyklon

zyklon

Junior Member
Registered Member
AndrewJ said:
In this chaotic world, small countries buy jets from multiple separate sources will become increasingly common. They're considering more of cross political protection, rather than weapons' integration or logistic complexity. Cross political protection means they're less likely to be attacked, aka look more neutral, when one side launches a war against another side. These countries don't want to choose solely on any side politically, so does their military equipment. So don't feel too strange/confused on this.
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There's some truths to that, but not so much in Indonesia's case.

Case in point: Indonesia has been operating the F-16 for decades, but when was the last time the US supported or sided with Jakarta at the expense of its principal rival, if not adversary in Canberra, as in the government of Australia?

Deino said:
The point is not the size, it is the mix of vastly different types ranging now from Flankers (Su-27 + Su-30), F-16, T-50I and soon (or planned) Rafales, J-10C (or J-10A+), F-15X, KF-21 and now Kaan!

It makes simply NO SENSE AT ALL.
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This probably does not make much sense to you because you don't come from a country with rampant corruption, but the Indonesian Air Force's acquisitions strategy — if we're to call it that — is logical once you factor in institutionalized demands for and expectations of kickbacks.

Each and every one of those platforms — as well as the associated maintenance and training programs, and spares and munitions supply chains that sit downstream — represents a separate source of kickbacks for elements within the Indonesian Air Force.

There's going to be even more juice for Indonesian elites to squeeze if one of these pending deals actually materializes, especially if a seller agrees to let the Indonesians assemble (and MRO) airframes locally, and/or incorporate Indonesian manufacturers into supply chains.

So if you're a senior Indonesian defense official with significant influence over fighter acquisitions, and your predecessor has already gotten the French to pay him and his buddies for inking a deal for Rafales, while their predecessors may have enriched themselves by way of the KF-21 program, then you will have to knock on some new doors and get (tentative) deals going with CATIC for the J-10 and/or with Boeing for the F-15 and/or with TAI for the Kaan to establish a new set of "tributaries" for yourself and whoever else got promoted following the inauguration of President Prabowo Subianto last October.

sequ said:
IMO delivery of 48 Kaan within 84 months is only possible with F110. Otherwise they should add several years in the case of the TF35000. Or it could be a mixed fleet.
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There's no good reason for the US to authorize the export of F110 turbofans with Indonesia as the end user when the US wants to sell a F-15EX derivative powered by F-110 turbofans to the Indonesians.

This deal is not going to progress very far until the Kaan's domestic turbofan program matures, and by that point, assuming it even happens, the Indonesians may be too invested elsewhere to circle back.
 
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