Trade War with China

TK3600 said:

Which dont benefit economy on the long run. Unless you are actively invading people for profit with enough profit to cover its cost. Impossible.

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Why? Internet you using originated from military research. It benefits you alot, No?

localizer said:

Well if China has no ambitions to run an empire like the US, it has no use for a burgeoning military that wastes money. It just needs to do enough to keep India and US in check.

Naturally, we Chinese are peaceful, intellectual, and business minded people and don't like chaos and trouble. I know it's probably why we got screwed so many times, but I'm confident the future will be different.

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Your confidence is completely misplaced. China will absolutely be victimized again, worse than the century of humiliation, if China does not:

1) vertically integrate its supply chain in strategic sectors like semiconductors and others.

2) EVENTUALLY match the U.S. military in capability, if not exceed it outright

3) channel its education spending towards the creation and development of more domestic institutions, instead of relying on the U.S. universities.

tidalwave said:

Why? Internet you using originated from military research. It benefits you alot, No?

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Or you can skip the wasteful military and invest in basic research directly. Hey, maybe military can benefit from new engine from NASA too.

TK3600 said:

Which dont benefit economy on the long run. Unless you are actively invading people for profit with enough profit to cover its cost. Impossible.

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You have long and short term confused. Extra military research is costly in the short run but in the long run, having the most powerful military is an enormous benefit to your economy and society because you put your country in a more powerful position to deal on the international stage and there is greater confidence that your country is a safe place for business and has the ability to defend its prosperity.

I'll tell you what really doesn't benefit your economy in the long run and that's the danger of being beaten up and/or invaded.

Unfortunately, it appears that there are still far too much Chinese who have never woken up to find themselves victimized in a situation where might makes right. There is no substitute for having a 1st tier military. And anyone who argues against such is arguing in favor of a second century of humiliation.

manqiangrexue said:

You have long and short term confused. Extra military research is costly in the short run but in the long run, having the most powerful military is an enormous benefit to your economy and society because you put your country in a more powerful position to deal on the international stage and there is greater confidence that your country is a safe place for business and has the ability to defend its prosperity.

I'll tell you what really doesn't benefit your economy in the long run and that's the danger of being beaten up and/or invaded.

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Well, is China at risk of a military invasion any time that investors are worrying? Then do you think current spending is not achieving a deterence?

TK3600 said:

Or you can skip the wasteful military and invest in basic research directly. Hey, maybe military can benefit from new engine from NASA too.

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Iraq war is the really the wasteful one. US already learned that, no more large scale invasion.
As far as weapon production, it sells worldwhile, jobs for domestic workers.

TK3600 said:

Well, is China at risk of a military invasion any time that investors are worrying? Then do you think current spending is not achieving a deterence?

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That's right. You relax, you die. That's what you face when you pose an existential threat to the global hegemon. The current spending is clearly achieving a deterrence but will it continue to do so as American military tech and spending also increases? Your life depends on the answer.

Furthermore, what is deterrence? Is deterring the US from annihilating you the level of deterrence that you want, or do you want more? If your goal in life is to be allowed to live, then this should be enough for you. Should the US be deterred from intervening in a Taiwan conflict? Should the US be deterred from provocations in the SCS? Should the US be deterred from even trying to dominate Asia? I think the answer to all those questions is yes and we are not there yet militarily; it's full steam ahead.

Don't think that military spending is wasted if you made a gun and didn't shoot anybody with it. Military spending is spending to prevent the need to kill be deterrence and any extra you have rolls over into the future.

US harboring motives to evict Chinese from Man made islands militarily. Also help Taiwan fend off China invasion even if Taiwan declares independence.

US first give trade war a shot see if it can weaken China significantly, if not next step is militarily.

US has no interest in attacking mainland, and knowing China no first use on nuke, it knows if it uses conventional military to evict Chinese from Man made island it will only confines to conventional weapons and it has high confidence it can work.

TK3600 said:

So many war hawks here. American business here is a mutually beneficial thing, why ban them. China dont have to do exactly what USA is doing. China should seek its own advantage while avoid american advantage. In other words, hit the american farmers and blue collar workers by tariff their car and food export. That will hit Trump's voters. Tech companies like Apple are not Trump supporters. They hate Trump. So why hit them?

Also please do not spend as much on military as usa. They are falling apart due to these overspending. No sane person will go total war on China, they already have the best land army and nuclear deterance. With home advantage they wont lose on sea and air either. With no extra % gdp on military china will still spend more, further reinforce the position. Unless you are advocating for beating usa on sea away from home in a total war, absolutely no point to spend anymore.

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I don't buy this China spend the least among big power She only spend 1.5%-2% out of the national GDP European spend 2% of GDP. And US regularly spend 3.75% - 4% of GDP
You need strong navy to defend the country and extend the defense perimeter as far a way as possible By the time the enemy ship is on the horizon the war is lost. China should learn from History She was defeated in first Sino-Japanese war because she has crummy navy that latter pave the way for occupation of Liadong peninsula to Japan

Not counting embargo What China will do when the enemy shut the Malacca strait and bottle up the importation of strategic commodity like oil and food ?
She has to send naval expeditionary force to pry open the straits