The War in the Ukraine

AssassinsMace

Lieutenant General
I was just watching 60 minutes and they had a story on Russian war crimes. So the Ukrainians have a bus that was hit by a Russian weapon. The explosion killed people on the bus and around it. They said 35 died and 145 were wounded. So they wrap the bus in plastic to preserve the evidence for a future war crimes trial… until they cut it open and enter so the 60 minutes crew can go in and record. They have a witness on the bus who survived and said he had to walk out of the front of the bus through dead bodies. The video 60 minutes recorded of the front inside showed no blood on the floor. So did they wash out the bus? Then they say it was a high tech precision weapon. Is that so they can claim the bus was intentionally targeted so that would make it more serious of a crime as opposed to it’s not as bad if it wasn’t?
 

AndrewJ

Junior Member
Registered Member
I was just watching 60 minutes and they had a story on Russian war crimes. So the Ukrainians have a bus that was hit by a Russian weapon. The explosion killed people on the bus and around it. They said 35 died and 145 were wounded. So they wrap the bus in plastic to preserve the evidence for a future war crimes trial… until they cut it open and enter so the 60 minutes crew can go in and record. They have a witness on the bus who survived and said he had to walk out of the front of the bus through dead bodies. The video 60 minutes recorded of the front inside showed no blood on the floor. So did they wash out the bus? Then they say it was a high tech precision weapon. Is that so they can claim the bus was intentionally targeted so that would make it more serious of a crime as opposed to it’s not as bad if it wasn’t?

IMO Russia's war crimes on Ukrainian civilians are countless and unquestionable. Everytime some Russian targets were hit, (i.e. warships, planes, oil refining infra, and etc.), Russia came up with a massive wave of random missile attacks against Ukrainian cities. I'm not saying Ukraine is not doing the same, but Russia is doing more cuz they have much more missiles, adding that Ukrainian military targets are less than Russian ones, therefore Ukraine suffers more crimes against civilians.

I'm not sure if this particular case is true or not. But the trend is clear and unquestionable. It's a sad fact happening everyday. :rolleyes:

 

Soldier30

Captain
Registered Member
A Russian drone operator showed a large amount of destroyed Ukrainian equipment in the Pokrovsk district, on the outskirts of Myrnohrad, the Russian designation for the village of Dimitrov. Myrnohrad is considered an eastern suburb of Pokrovsk. Russian aircraft are currently actively targeting Myrnohrad using FAB bombs.

 

Sinnavuuty

Captain
Registered Member
IMO Russia's war crimes on Ukrainian civilians are countless and unquestionable. Everytime some Russian targets were hit, (i.e. warships, planes, oil refining infra, and etc.), Russia came up with a massive wave of random missile attacks against Ukrainian cities. I'm not saying Ukraine is not doing the same, but Russia is doing more cuz they have much more missiles, adding that Ukrainian military targets are less than Russian ones, therefore Ukraine suffers more crimes against civilians.

I'm not sure if this particular case is true or not. But the trend is clear and unquestionable. It's a sad fact happening everyday. :rolleyes:

I agree with you about Russian war crimes, but we must acknowledge that the Russians often attack civilian facilities because the Ukrainian military ends up using civilian infrastructure for military purposes. The Russians end up using military intelligence (HUMINT) to conduct this surveillance and direct targets to missile units.

This was the case with numerous kindergartens, theaters, schools, and shopping malls being used by the AFU as warehouses, meeting areas, supply storage, and other facilities.
 

gullible

Junior Member
This would need both Putin and the military to agree to this truce. Also to note is that the Europeans won’t agree and Zelensky won’t agree so this entire process is a waste of time. So I can’t see anything coming from this no matter how much smoke they blow up their collective back sides, until they address all of Russias concerns and the west can accept this loss in Ukraine with grace, this fight will persist
will EU & zelensky dare to oppose Trump's peace plan at the cost of US arm supplies withdrawal?

if the plan failed trump would issue sanctions to them.
 

FriedButter

Brigadier
Registered Member
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Has Trump’s 28-Point “Peace” Plan Been Knocked Down to 19​

According to the Financial Times, nine points have been cut from the original draft, hammered out by Ukrainian, US, and European representatives in Geneva on Sunday. But detail remains scarce.
but that two of the most contentious issues – Ukraine ceding its occupied territories and its non-admission to NATO in perpetuity – have been set aside for direct talks between Zelensky and Trump.
Ukraine’s Interfax news agency reported. “Some points were removed, some were changed. Not a single remark from the Ukrainian side was left without a response.”

Out of the original 28 point proposal. 9 were removed, 2 has not been decided, and 17 were subjected to potential changes.

These may be the ones that were removed.
4. A dialogue will be held between Russia and NATO, mediated by the United States, to resolve all security issues and create conditions for de-escalation in order to ensure global security and increase opportunities for cooperation and future economic development.

6. The size of the Ukrainian Armed Forces will be limited to 600,000 personnel.

8. NATO agrees not to station troops in Ukraine.

9. European fighter jets will be stationed in Poland.

13. Russia will be reintegrated into the global economy:

17. The United States and Russia will agree to extend the validity of treaties on the non-proliferation and control of nuclear weapons, including the START I Treaty.

18. Ukraine agrees to be a non-nuclear state in accordance with the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons.

19. The Zaporizhzhia Nuclear Power Plant will be launched under the supervision of the IAEA, and the electricity produced will be distributed equally between Russia and Ukraine — 50:50.

20. Both countries undertake to implement educational programs in schools and society aimed at promoting understanding and tolerance of different cultures and eliminating racism and prejudice:

From a supposed Peace Plan to an Ultimatum of Surrender that Trump expects Russia to sign in a couple weeks.
 

tamsen_ikard

Captain
Registered Member
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Out of the original 28 point proposal. 9 were removed, 2 has not been decided, and 17 were subjected to potential changes.

These may be the ones that were removed.
4. A dialogue will be held between Russia and NATO, mediated by the United States, to resolve all security issues and create conditions for de-escalation in order to ensure global security and increase opportunities for cooperation and future economic development.

6. The size of the Ukrainian Armed Forces will be limited to 600,000 personnel.

8. NATO agrees not to station troops in Ukraine.

9. European fighter jets will be stationed in Poland.

13. Russia will be reintegrated into the global economy:

17. The United States and Russia will agree to extend the validity of treaties on the non-proliferation and control of nuclear weapons, including the START I Treaty.

18. Ukraine agrees to be a non-nuclear state in accordance with the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons.

19. The Zaporizhzhia Nuclear Power Plant will be launched under the supervision of the IAEA, and the electricity produced will be distributed equally between Russia and Ukraine — 50:50.

20. Both countries undertake to implement educational programs in schools and society aimed at promoting understanding and tolerance of different cultures and eliminating racism and prejudice:

From a supposed Peace Plan to an Ultimatum of Surrender that Trump expects Russia to sign in a couple weeks.
You cant have a deal when actual warring parties are not talking to each other and not in the same room. This is a pointless show. Neither Russia or Ukraine is intersted in this so called plan. They are just playing just to please Trump.
 

HighGround

Senior Member
Registered Member
IMO Russia's war crimes on Ukrainian civilians are countless and unquestionable. Everytime some Russian targets were hit, (i.e. warships, planes, oil refining infra, and etc.), Russia came up with a massive wave of random missile attacks against Ukrainian cities. I'm not saying Ukraine is not doing the same, but Russia is doing more cuz they have much more missiles, adding that Ukrainian military targets are less than Russian ones, therefore Ukraine suffers more crimes against civilians.

I'm not sure if this particular case is true or not. But the trend is clear and unquestionable. It's a sad fact happening everyday. :rolleyes:


They're not "random." Tragedies happen in war, that's why it should be avoided.
 

Anlsvrthng

Captain
Registered Member
The Geran/ballistic missiles/cruise missiles not usable for terror attacks. They too expensive.

The USA/British terror attacks on german and japanese cities used bombers, and droped magnitude(s) more bombs .

Single bombing on Tokyo killed 100 000 civilian.

The small impacts ,and the shrapnel kills most likelly results of patriot and ukrainan interceptors malfuncion or self detonate low altitude above urban areas.

The israeli videos showd many stray patriot interceptors going into interesting directions.

The urban areas good to hide military assets, but terrible to guide interceptor missiles to low altitude targets.
 
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