Isn't that like.... one in a million bullseye shot? So many variables like wind, altitude, moving targets, detonation timing, wow.
The War in the Ukraine
- Thread starter SampanViking
- Start date
solarz
Brigadier
We can speculate all we want but the fact is NATO is currently going out of their way to supply Ukraine with Soviet equipment, including buying it from third-party countries.
Not really. The country is economically devastated, GDP cut into a fraction of what it was. Its now struggling to find food, gas and water. It will take humanitarian aid in the tens of billions per month to stop the country from potential mass starvation, much less face the prospect of a chilling winter without gas supplies.
Now if Greek or Cyprus are willing or budge to US Pressure to transfer their S-300PMU-1 and Ukrainian able to train for it. That's gonna be some considerable boost in their air defense as it's basically twice the range of S-300PS they had back then.
Pretty sure Ukraine had PMU's already. No idea if they were operative or the spare parts got sold in the black market the last few years, as they usually did.
Oh really? Back in WW2 the Soviets were basically fighting the rest of continental Europe put together. They could not hit the rearward production areas of the Nazis even if they wanted to. They did do a couple raids on Berlin with Il-4 bombers in 1941. But as they lost territory they couldn't even do that as it got out of range. Today Russia can easily hit any rearward transportation and production areas. Just think about it. Is there any area in Ukraine they can't hit with cruise missiles or hypersonics if they really want to? Try looking at the range of either the Kh-101, the Kalibr, or the Kh-47 Kinzhal. They can hit any target up to northern Spain or beyond from Russian territory if they wanted to. And consider how NATO cannot even intercept an errant Ukrainian drone. Do you think they will be able to intercept a stealthy or hypersonic Russian cruise missile?
Let us say the US decides to do a sea lift and bring loads of modern heavy equipment into Europe. Then Russia starts blowing up harbors to prevent the heavy equipment being brought in. Or NATO decides to do a no fly zone, like some US pundits wanted, and Russia starts blowing up NATO airbases, maintenance facilities, aviation fuel storage, etc. And get this. They get to tell the US that if they hit similar targets inside Russia proper they will retaliate with nukes on US territory.
Well the West is being retarded. They don't understand modern warfare, neither how the Cold War happened, nor what modern weapons can do. The US is making a massive gamble here where they will ruin Europe in an attempt to ruin Russia and maybe China. And the Europeans were dumb enough to get into the ride. There is also little evidence that if Russia goes into Western Ukraine or beyond that they will keep using the same rules of engagement where they try to minimize civilian losses. If the Russians are made to fight NATO directly, you can pretty much bet they won't use these rules of engagement.
And Russia has lots of techniques to counter "networked warfare" of peer level adversaries like ASAT. If it came to that. Let us say that US observation satellites become a real issue. Then by some coincidence some ground based laser temporarily blinds that said observation satellite or satellites. Right when it is passing over the area of operations. Then they keep insisting, and oops, the satellite malfunctioned for whatever reason. This isn't theory as Russia has Peresvet in service.
They are in a sequence of urban combat scenarios against the bulk of the Ukrainian army. Once the Donbass is cleaned up if they want to continue they will move a lot faster, well until they start taking the main cities. If it comes to that.
I don't disagree. What I disagree is @gelgoog suggesting Russian army can reach French border after "exhausting all NATO donated equipment", but to your point, all NATO has done is (mostly) donate ex-Soviet hardware and still can't penetrate eastern Ukraine (yet), NATO has not even donated their best Western MBTs, cruise missiles, fighter jets, air defense systems, so how you can reach the French border if NATO hasn't donated (all) of it's (best) equipment yet? IF NATO did donate it's best equipment, Russia wouldn't even make it to Dnieper river, much less the French border.
Last edited:
NATO isn't sending their best equipment because they don't have that much of it. And when Ukraine then inevitably fails, then they would risk a situation where Russia could decide to make a punitive expedition into Europe and they would be wide open. France has a little over 200 tanks. And Germany not even that. The West has spent the last two decades mostly investing in MRAPs, Jeeps, and crap like that to fight counter insurgency warfare. Germany and France put together have less tanks than Ukraine did when this conflict started. The UK even recently was considering stopping having MBTs. The US Marines no longer have MBTs. And if you think European tanks are modern, well, think again. French tanks haven't been upgraded since initial production in the 1990s, don't even have ERA, and the German Leopard 2s are even older than that.
Last edited:
Before dreaming about Russian army reaching the French border, how about penetrate the defensive perimeters in Eastern Ukraine first?
It's so funny the Russophiles talk about how big and strong Russia is, but NATO isn't even donating their best hardware, and Russia still has difficulty against Ukraine. French border, my asscheeks, I would be surprised if Russia could even reach the Dnieper river.
In the South they already did and went beyond it. In the North they pretty much did and then pulled back. So much for that talk.
You guys also seem to think the West can basically stop making new tanks for 3 decades and then just resume production at a drop of a hat. Things don't work like that. The US has a couple hundred modernized M1s, and there might be a couple dozen modernized Leopard 2's all over Europe. Then maybe the whole of NATO can modernize like 150-200 tanks a year if they really try. Russia can do that all by itself in new tanks.
Last edited: