The War in the Ukraine

Abominable

Major
Registered Member
The war will last for years, Ukraine has plenty of time.
So long? I thought Ukraine was winning so much? If they've killed 100,000 Russian soldiers and destroyed 500,000 Russian tanks surely there isn't much left? How are Russia going to drag it out for years?

It's Russia that has time, not Ukraine. Look at the state of both countries. Ukraine is fully mobilised with mass conscription, while Russia has only dedicated a small portion of it's army to the fight. Ukraine needs to worry about every barrel of oil, every truck load of supplies that is coming over its borders while Russia is trading with the vast majority of the world normally. Economy/military Russia is doing fine on their own (in fact record revenues), while the whole Ukrainian state is dependent on handouts.

A long war is possible but unlikely. I think it'll be done by the end of the year at most, but we'll see.
 

4Runner

Junior Member
Registered Member
Reading play by play in this new thread, it downed on me that it was not entirely red herring when US started propaganda against alleged China's military (material) aid to Russia. It was a pre-emptive political move, for reasons that are manifesting in the battle fields.

One of the biggest material weakness of the Russian armed forces in Ukraine is contactless modern warfare, which is conducted under the material conditions of intelligent weapons and C4ISR in a networked battleground.

UAVs, smart missiles, robotic fighting machines, real-time sensor and communication networks, etc., are the names of the warfare from now on.

Tanks, guns, helicopters etc. are too slow and too vulnerable on the battle fields.

Video game players are as important as foot soldiers.

In this new paradigm of battleground warfare, US and China are the only two major armed forces that have the whole portfolio of elements as well as their production bases. US and China are also the only two countries that can afford deploying and supplying and sustaining this type of new warfare.

One result of this analysis is that Russia does not have conventional wherewithals to march further beyond the Dnieper River. I think Russia will stop after dismembering the remaining Ukraine army in the east. And I doubt Russia can take out Odessa without significant losses and punishing costs.

Therefore, in terms of the battlefield spacing, it may be approaching a balancing point. But it certainly does not mean that the war will end any time soon. It will go back and force along the current frontlines for a long time.

The underlying assumption is that US keeps supplying Ukraine and China does not provide those needed elements to Russia.
 

pmc

Major
Registered Member
UAVs, smart missiles, robotic fighting machines, real-time sensor and communication networks, etc., are the names of the warfare from now on.
All these things are already tested in Syria thats why cities are relatively safe from terriroist.
the sensors can pickup the smallest activity all the way across the border into Turkey.
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Tanks, guns, helicopters etc. are too slow and too vulnerable on the battle fields.
they are adding faster and longer range missiles in all domains. so they have capability to find targets at greater distance and react fast. The newer Vikhr can shoot air targets upto 800km/hr. so basically no difference between AAM and ATGM for choppers. hermes are even faster.
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Another planned addition to the Ka-52’s arsenal is the Hermes-A, which has a maximum range of 54nm (100km). The new air-launched weapons feature multi-spectral target seekers using laser, elctro-optical, photo-contrast and thermal imaging technologies.
Completion of acceptance trials for the Ka-52M is expected next year.
 

LawLeadsToPeace

Senior Member
Staff member
Moderator - World Affairs
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Military only news please, not political or conspiracy-based news.
After much discussion and against the wishes of some, the final decision has been for a new thread on the Ukrainian War to be opened.

Everybody should be aware that this is a special thread, in response to special circumstances and that a special rule regime will be enforce on this thread and this thread only. These rules will not apply to the rest of the forum.


This is a military forum and this thread will be a military thread.

It is a Military Operation thread dealing with:
Strategy
Tactics
Events/Movements on the Battlefield
Equipment used and its performance
Debunking propaganda and false claims using actual battlefield based evidence

With regard to Graphic content - meaningful content from the battlefield will almost invariably contain some graphic images, it will often be unavoidable.
Footage with graphic content should not be embedded where it is visible on the Forum itself but only linked to a third party site with appropriate warnings.
Gratuitous footage which has no other value should be avoided.

This thread is not the place to promote propaganda from either side. Where propaganda style claims are made it will be strictly in respect of confirming and debunking actual military events, using primary evidence for that purpose.

Do not go off topic, do not regurgitate history ancient or modern, or diverge into other conflicts that the combatants in Ukraine may have been involved in.
Further guidance will be given as the thread continues and this may include judgement calls on specifics if required.
Overall the aim is to produce a free flowing thread that follows and analyses events without generating unnecessary pages of turgid waffle and squabble.

If people blatantly flaunt the rules, they will face bans
If to many people get overheated in the course of debate, the thread will be closed for an appropriate time to allow for cooling off

I personally hope that members will appreciate the efforts and the compromises that members of the Moderation team have made to allow this thread to start and will respect this and other members accordingly so no bans or closures will be necessary

Finally, as Webmaster has recently posted. There is an opportunity for other members to join the moderator team as special moderators to help manage this thread. If you think you would like to help, please contact the Webmaster directly.
 

Phead128

Captain
Staff member
Moderator - World Affairs
The whole point is that Ukraine doesn't have time to train it's soldiers to use NATO equipment.
Of course, this war is going to last years at this rate, plenty of time to train to use NATO equipment.
Not if they can't afford to pull soldiers away from the frontlines for the months necessary.
Ever heard of troop rotations and mass mobilization? Both regularly happens, it's not like these soldiers are deployed non-stop in trenches for the last 8 years.
 

4Runner

Junior Member
Registered Member
All these things are already tested in Syria thats why cities are relatively safe from terriroist.
the sensors can pickup the smallest activity all the way across the border into Turkey.
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they are adding faster and longer range missiles in all domains. so they have capability to find targets at greater distance and react fast. The newer Vikhr can shoot air targets upto 800km/hr. so basically no difference between AAM and ATGM for choppers. hermes are even faster.
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Different "wars" under different battleground situations.

Ukraine with NATO behind its western border has the logistics and the strategic depth that Russia has never faced before. The west has never been this enthusiastic of supporting a proxy war, including the 1970s Afghanistan. From technological and industrial standpoint, Russia is way behind the west in those elements of modern networked warfare. To the Russian armed forces in Ukraine, the low handing fruits are already picked up. It is going to get harder and harder if it keeps pushing westward beyond Donbas regions.

I am not looking at play by play or a specific use case on the battleground on a given day. I am looking at the big picture. The battles on the ground are approaching stalemate. I am not saying Russia is going to lose this war anytime soon. But the easy part is done. This war is becoming a text book of modern protracted war with information characteristics.
 

pmc

Major
Registered Member
Different "wars" under different battleground situations.

Ukraine with NATO behind its western border has the logistics and the strategic depth that Russia has never faced before. The west has never been this enthusiastic of supporting a proxy war, including the 1970s Afghanistan. From technological and industrial standpoint, Russia is way behind the west in those elements of modern networked warfare. To the Russian armed forces in Ukraine, the low handing fruits are already picked up. It is going to get harder and harder if it keeps pushing westward beyond Donbas regions.
Turkey is among the first uses of Latest Boeing AESA AWACS at the time. they have drones in the area. 40 to 50 F-16s up in the air looking for gaps. than you add NATO PACs. All these information system was feeding into Syria for ATGM and smallest droness strikes
its far complex battlefield when you consider the mountains that practically negate low altitude flying and higher altitude are picked by radar from distance. this drone swarm attack Ukraine has yet to perfect.
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I am not looking at play by play or a specific use case on the battleground on a given day. I am looking at the big picture. The battles on the ground are approaching stalemate. I am not saying Russia is going to lose this war anytime soon. But the easy part is done. This war is becoming a text book of modern protracted war with information characteristics.
it is not stalemate. when you look at correctly.
 
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