The War in the Ukraine

tankphobia

Senior Member
Registered Member
Now I'm wondering, how was C&C achieved? This was on the order of a few thousand kilometers from Ukraine, they must be using a starlink or some sort of satellite uplink. Wide area Jamming would also have stopped this attack dead. On a side note somehow footage here is STILL better than Kashmir conflict despite being thousands of KM from the front lol.
 

Sinnavuuty

Captain
Registered Member
This attack has clearly and massively crossed the biggest red line there is a for nuclear armed state that I am not sure Putin can just gloss over it even if he wanted to.

A systematic attack against your nuclear forces cannot go unanswered or it will invite more such attacks until your entire nuclear capabilities becomes compromised.

People love to have a dig at Russian incompetence, but it’s hard to see anyone else being able to deal with suck an attack much better.

The idiotic thing is that if Ukraine did this against other conventional bases directly involved in the war in Ukraine, the results would have been significantly impactful on the war by dealing a real solid blow against Russian Tac Air. And Putin would be able to do little more than to seethe and rage.

But this blatant and massive attack against Russian nuclear forces genuinely gives him legit cause to use nukes against Ukraine to establish deterrence against anyone else thinking of making similar terrorist style attacks.

And playing devils advocate here, what would NATO actually do if he did drop nukes on Ukraine? Charge into the nuclear war themselves? Of course not. They couldn’t really even use that to put undue pressure on China to sanction Russia as the obvious response would be, FAFO, what did you expect to happen to go after Russian nuclear forces like that in the first place?
It definitely crosses the red line, but Ukraine has carried out strikes against the Russian nuclear triad before, although not successfully, the Russians retaliated symbolically, which was not to be expected considering that according to the extract from the “State Policy of the Russian Federation in the Field of Nuclear Deterrence”, approved by decree of President Putin on November 19, 2024:
“Part III.

Conditions for the transition of the Russian Federation to the use of nuclear weapons

Paragraph 19. The conditions that determine the possibility of the use of nuclear weapons by the Russian Federation include:

c) attacks by an enemy against critically important state or military facilities of the Russian Federation, the deactivation of which would lead to the cessation of the response actions of nuclear forces.”

What this attack may be as a consequence is that the peace negotiations may be definitively over. In fact, it was more than clear that neither side wanted peace, this attack demonstrated once and for all that any negotiations are unlikely.

As for retaliation, of course there will be, but I mean it in the sense of being effective and not just showing strength, as the Russians have been doing whenever they suffer a setback in war. There will be retaliation, but I sincerely hope it will be mild, as it has been since the beginning.

As for Russian incompetence, the VKS intelligence should have already been aware of the FPV attack on air bases, especially air bases that house strategic bombers. Therefore, an air force at war would have invented a thousand ways to protect its strategic aviation, one of which is literally arming the air force infantry at the air bases with anti-drone weapons, including shotguns with bullets specifically designed for anti-FPVs, as the Russians have been doing on the front line.

I will not go on here about what could be within the competence of the VKS intelligence, but this only demonstrates incompetence. Furthermore, the Russians know that the Ukrainians are receiving help from Western intelligence, especially British intelligence, which I believe is 100% involved in this attack.
 

Overbom

Brigadier
Registered Member
This attack has clearly and massively crossed the biggest red line there is a for nuclear armed state that I am not sure Putin can just gloss over it even if he wanted to.

A systematic attack against your nuclear forces cannot go unanswered or it will invite more such attacks until your entire nuclear capabilities becomes compromised.

People love to have a dig at Russian incompetence, but it’s hard to see anyone else being able to deal with suck an attack much better.

The idiotic thing is that if Ukraine did this against other conventional bases directly involved in the war in Ukraine, the results would have been significantly impactful on the war by dealing a real solid blow against Russian Tac Air. And Putin would be able to do little more than to seethe and rage.

But this blatant and massive attack against Russian nuclear forces genuinely gives him legit cause to use nukes against Ukraine to establish deterrence against anyone else thinking of making similar terrorist style attacks.

And playing devils advocate here, what would NATO actually do if he did drop nukes on Ukraine? Charge into the nuclear war themselves? Of course not. They couldn’t really even use that to put undue pressure on China to sanction Russia as the obvious response would be, FAFO, what did you expect to happen to go after Russian nuclear forces like that in the first place?
Attack imo has reached threshold for Russia to respond with it's nuclear forces. At least thats how I would rationally analyze this

But we all know that this won't happen, I expect just another PR and "massive" retaliatory missile attack by Russia and then continue as usual.

Putin's red lines have been repeatedly breached with no consequences. That's a fact. That's the thing with red lines, once one is crossed, there is no stopping the other party from crossing the others because they no longer believe in your resolve

Would love to see Ukraine trying this bs against Kim. Bet you this thought hasn't, and won't ever, cross their minds though. Wonder why..
 

Tam

Brigadier
Registered Member
Attack on Severmorsk naval base a fake.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Drapaty resignation due to Iskander strike at a Ukrainian training base. Allegedly 12 is killed and 60 are wounded. However I don't think a CinC would resign with such level of losses unless it is far greater.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Now I'm wondering, how was C&C achieved? This was on the order of a few thousand kilometers from Ukraine, they must be using a starlink or some sort of satellite uplink. Wide area Jamming would also have stopped this attack dead. On a side note somehow footage here is STILL better than Kashmir conflict despite being thousands of KM from the front lol.

AI. Jamming would not stop this.

AI is made to recognize the image of the aircraft and strike where their fuel tanks are. If you see the footage of the TUs burning it's struck in the center of the fuselage where the fuel is supposed to be. This was assuming the planes are being readied for a strike.
 

Stealthflanker

Senior Member
Registered Member
Now I'm wondering, how was C&C achieved? This was on the order of a few thousand kilometers from Ukraine, they must be using a starlink or some sort of satellite uplink. Wide area Jamming would also have stopped this attack dead. On a side note somehow footage here is STILL better than Kashmir conflict despite being thousands of KM from the front lol.

Russian's own mobile network perhaps ?

Considering Russians also do similar thing with their drones, putting transponder containing Ukrainian SIMcard.. then when Ukraine recover the drone.. Russians can track it back to their base.
 

tankphobia

Senior Member
Registered Member
AI. Jamming would not stop this.

AI is made to recognize the image of the aircraft and strike where their fuel tanks are. If you see the footage of the TUs burning it's struck in the center of the fuselage where the fuel is supposed to be. This was assuming the planes are being readied for a strike.
Targetting could be AI, but since there is hd video footage there's a robust network connection in place.

Russian's own mobile network perhaps ?

Considering Russians also do similar thing with their drones, putting transponder containing Ukrainian SIMcard.. then when Ukraine recover the drone.. Russians can track it back to their base.
Likely, does Russia have ID laws for sim card purchase? Would make using network to attack like this much harder.

Satellite image of Belaya airbase a few weeks prior to the strikes. Hitting blackjacks could be extraordinary expensive for Russia. Current estimates at damages is $2 billion.

 

Lethe

Captain
A tactically brilliant operation carrying such clear escalatory risks would appear to be justified only in dire strategic circumstances. Either AFU is 100% confident that Russia will not escalate to the nuclear domain and has little room to escalate otherwise, or they believe that ascending the escalatory ladder is nonetheless preferable to the status quo.
 
Last edited:

neutralobserver

Junior Member
Registered Member
Attack imo has reached threshold for Russia to respond with it's nuclear forces. At least thats how I would rationally analyze this

But we all know that this won't happen, I expect just another PR and "massive" retaliatory missile attack by Russia and then continue as usual.

Putin's red lines have been repeatedly breached with no consequences. That's a fact. That's the thing with red lines, once one is crossed, there is no stopping the other party from crossing the others because they no longer believe in your resolve

Would love to see Ukraine trying this bs against Kim. Bet you this thought hasn't, and won't ever, cross their minds though. Wonder why..
Russian redlines have been crossed hundreds of times in this war. Redlines are meaningless if they are not enforced.
 
Top