The War in the Ukraine

Imagine using a Buk to down a Ka-52. Either ran out of manpads or Vitebsk is actually pretty efective.

As if what happened in Engels is actually an attack organized by the SBU, guess the next wave of missile attacks will likely take out what's left of Ukraine's infrastructure

Anlsvrthng said:

It is comming from Russian sources, so must be false.

I am get right it ?

And it is another reason why Russia needs to secure an USA weapons and military free zone in easter-central europe.


This attack was aproved and organised by the USA agaisnt the Russian strategic nuclear forces. Means it will put the conflict to new gear.

No, it is a decision. Result of a cost benefit calculation, but in this case the benefit is a surviva of the Russian state, means the cost will ALLWAYS matched.


See the diference ?


NATO CAN NOT send more units to Donbas, Russia can send as much as decided , to gurantee the desired outcome.

So, if we say if the USA won in Donbas then Russia as an independent country cease to exist then we can say the current level of soldiers on Donbas frontline has no upper limit, and the actual level depends on tactical level decisions.

So, the end game CAN NOT BE USA win, only stealmate after a nuclear exchange. Or full russian win.

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What is Russia gonna do? Russia cannot beat Ukraine on battlefield, so it's soldiers would get wiped out if they attacked NATO countries. Russian state would survive losing in Ukraine, but Putin wouldn't survive it, and I suspect thats the biggest reason why Russia hasn't already left Ukraine. Russia entered into war what it cannot end without end of Putin.

Was the claimed airbase attack final test of this new drone?

Broccoli said:

What is Russia gonna do? Russia cannot beat Ukraine on battlefield, so it's soldiers would get wiped out if they attacked NATO countries.

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Sorry, mate , but you don't understand.

IF everything that the Russians say false, then the attack against the Engels airbase how can consdiered as credible news if came only from Russians?


Or the negative news for Russians from Russian source true, positive false.


Or whatever ?

Broccoli said:

Russian state would survive losing in Ukraine, but Putin wouldn't survive it, and I suspect thats the biggest reason why Russia hasn't already left Ukraine. Russia entered into war what it cannot end without end of Putin.

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Why Russia can't win ? your reasoning is like observing biding between a billionaire and an average joe for items on auction.

The average joe can win only if the billionaire don't want the item. If something is important as life for the billionaire then the item will be in the possession of they. But simply making a numerical analysis about bidding could show that the average joe winning 80% of the time. For items that tha billionaire doesn't want.

Russia has the widest range of weapons on the earth, on par or in excess with the USA. She hasn't started the bidding in honest .

But in this case the price is not putin, or jelcin, or navalni,but the Russian strategical independence. Few hours ago a drone attack was launched against the Russian strategical forces . If Ukraine (or Finnland) exist as an USA colony like Poland or Japan then Russia hasn't got strategical independence.

Russian military telegram channels claim that two Tu-95 were damaged and Peskov said that "Putin was reported on the incidents in Saratov and Ryazan regions".

So there were explosions in two airfields.

Broccoli said:

What is Russia gonna do? Russia cannot beat Ukraine on battlefield, so it's soldiers would get wiped out if they attacked NATO countries. Russian state would survive losing in Ukraine, but Putin wouldn't survive it, and I suspect thats the biggest reason why Russia hasn't already left Ukraine. Russia entered into war what it cannot end without end of Putin.

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Russia only need to inflict damage on Ukraine's civilian economy sufficient to cause of a collapse of the state, which is what is occuring now. Already 1/4 Ukrainian population has fled, Ukrainian GDP collapsed by 50%, EU suffering hyperinflation, even US that can print money for free is facing inflation including 18% energy inflation despite selling off strategic reservoir.

Gasoline is now 18% higher than this time last year, in line with overall energy prices.

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Since the invasion, 2,772,010 Ukrainian refugees have been recorded crossing the border into Russia

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Since the beginning of the war in Ukraine, a total of 8.1 million Ukrainian refugees have crossed the border into the European Union

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Ukraine at night, note how Russia including Crimea is brightly lit.


Weather in Ukraine: <0C all day every day while electricity and heat are permanently down.

Broccoli said:

What is Russia gonna do? Russia cannot beat Ukraine on battlefield, so it's soldiers would get wiped out if they attacked NATO countries. Russian state would survive losing in Ukraine, but Putin wouldn't survive it, and I suspect thats the biggest reason why Russia hasn't already left Ukraine. Russia entered into war what it cannot end without end of Putin.

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My dude, even if Ukraine "wins" which it isn't a foregone conclusion at this point as much as you'd like to gloat and be racist about it, it no longer is a viable country in any shape or form. The investment required to rebuild it is massive which is only going to get bigger as long as the corruption issue in Ukraine isn't adressed, even if you guys now like to pretend there is no corruption in Ukraine. Then there is brain drain and it is unlikely most of the people who have left will return by the time the war is over.

And no, Europe won't be paying for any of it because European solidarity extends only to the point where they have something to gain short term. Case in point, escalating things in Libya then killing Libyan refugees in the Meditarrean.

Then there is going to be the issue of all the unaccounted for western weapons that will end in Western Europe in the hands of either islamic extremists or neo-nazis. Meanwhile, Europe is gargling the US's balls and getting dragged into a war with China you can't win.


In this regard, the attack on Engels it is likely to be considered an attack on strategic assets and part of Russia's nuclear triad so it will likely result in more escalation.

FairAndUnbiased said:

Russia only need to inflict damage on Ukraine's civilian economy sufficient to cause of a collapse of the state, which is what is occuring now. Already 1/4 Ukrainian population has fled, Ukrainian GDP collapsed by 50%, EU suffering hyperinflation, even US that can print money for free is facing inflation including 18% energy inflation despite selling off strategic reservoir.

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Ukraine at night, note how Russia including Crimea is brightly lit.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1596721849228234752

Weather in Ukraine: <0C all day every day while electricity and heat are permanently down.

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Doesn't seem to help Russians that much on the battlefield.

If Ukrainians get 1000km into mass production they can hit Russian powerstations near Moscow.

With how much damage that was done to the infrastructure and people fleeing, I don't see how any situation could lead to a "win" for Ukraine in the short or medium term.

About the report of how NATO volunteer troops were crushed in Bakhmut, it is to me more confirmation about the overwhelming importance of numbers in men and munitions in a modern large scale war.

Some posters here seriously believe if NATO attacks they can defeat Russia in weeks... Funnily enough they're the exact same as Russian nationalists that thought they would defeat Ukraine in weeks.

NATO does not have better ability to fight unless they can scrounge up larger amounts of firepower and enough men to push the Russians back across the whole line.

That is the truth why NATO does not officially intervene nor send planes. They fear even invading Iran due to its population density. Russia which can potentially call on a multi million man army during an American invasion is a complete no go.

@milchronicles report the lack of armored vehicles with the Ukrainians is a problem.

A lack of equipment was added to the losses of the Armed Forces of Ukraine in Bakhmut: the main thing

Due to the temperature drop in the Bakhmut region, the APU has an exacerbated problem with spare parts and rubber for foreign equipment, which the Military Chronicle . During the day, impassable mud is replaced by severe frosts, which makes it difficult to use wheeled armored vehicles MaxxPro, Bushmaster, Sisu and Kirpi.

For the delivery of ammunition, medicines and food to the garrison of the city, the Ground Forces of Ukraine use Soviet armored personnel carriers MT-LB, removed from storage in the Dnepropetrovsk and Kharkov regions.

The advanced units of the Armed Forces of Ukraine are forced to get to the line of clashes in civilian vehicles, which is why both regular formations and territorial defense brigades suffer heavy losses.

From November 30 to December 4, the shortage of armored vehicles caused high losses in the 109th and 241st Territorial Defense Brigades in the southeast in the area of Opytny, the Kastus Kalinouski Regiment of Belarusian Nationalists, and the 71st Jaeger Brigade. The situation in the Azov National Battalion (the organization was recognized as a terrorist organization) is especially difficult: among others, the deputy commander of the company, Anton Radko, was seriously wounded. When trying to get out of the shelling on the southeastern outskirts of Bakhmut, five Georgian mercenaries from the "Foreign Legion" of the Armed Forces of Ukraine were killed.

The highest percentage of losses in these units was recorded as a result of the use of Kornet and Konkurs ATGMs by Wagner PMC units, as well as T-80BV tanks supported by D-20 and Giacint-B guns.