The benefit of building a Nuke-powered destroyer or crusier.

Uh, sorry Mu Shu, but hydrogen IS easily extracted from water now. NASA uses a hydrogen extraction system on some of it's spacecraft.

This guy in Florida apparently has developed an extractor similar to what NASA is using. Link: (Watch the video of water fueled car and torch)

The Japanese are getting ready to sell a car that runs on water that uses a simple and efficient hydrogen extraxction system. I do not understand precisely how the technology works, but it does work.

Keep in mind a nuclear powered ship can use space previously used to carry the ship's fuel as bunkerage for it's aviation assets. Double bonus, the ship can fight more days before running out of aviation fuel.

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Very true. When I was on Nimitz in '91 we took on aviation fuel(aka JP5) about once a week maybe as long as 10 days. On the Conventional CVs I served we had to go along side to refuel every three or four days. Quite a difference considering we not only took on NSFO(Navy Special Fuel Oil) to power the ship but JP5 for our aircraft.

Judgement Day said:

As hydrogen can now be easily extracted from water/seawater is there any reason that you could not have a hydrogen powered sub or surface ship. Since they could use seawater for fuel they could stay at sea as long as the food supply lasts. Any navies experimenting with this?

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Yes, using hydrogen fuel cells. I think some of the AIP subs, the German ones that is, are using hydrogen fuel cells.

crobato said:

Yes, using hydrogen fuel cells. I think some of the AIP subs, the German ones that is, are using hydrogen fuel cells.

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The hydrogen is stored in tanks, and is only good for a number of days of continuous running. The main engines of course, are the diesels.

AIP buys you maybe four knots of speed, and does not provide sufficient electrical energy to extract oxygen from sea water. What you artfully dodged is where the sub obtains it's supply of hydrogen. It is emphatically not from sea water, it is stored in the sub in the form of metal hydride canisters. Oxygen for the fuel cells is stored in liquid form inside the sub.
Hydrogen fuel cells are a very long way from being an efficient way to propel vehicles. Obtaining hydrogen from the environment requires a huge expenditure of electricity, so much so that the process of generating hydrogen fuel is in itself immensely inefficient. There are better power sources for most transportation systems. For a small sub that must stay under water for an extended period of time due to tactical considerations, a designer can justify accepting these inefficiencies.



Btw, only nuclear subs have sufficient electrical energy to separate sea water into hydrogen and oxygen, a process used to generate oxygen for the crew to breathe. The hydrogen is vented overboard.

A good find on that Siemans report Mu Shu. I do not have a techincal background, but still found it an interesting read. Now, way back when....say 20+ years ago, I worked for a government contractor who had a contract with the Naval Research Lab at a couple of their Florida locations.

I only had a secret clearance. The facility was once top secret, but after the Johnny Walker (I met him once. He had a private investigation company in Va. Beach and at the time I was working for another security company. We never could figure out where he got the money to equip his surveillance vans. They had the lastest and most expensive equipment available at that time. After he got arrested we figured out where his money was coming from.) spy scandal, the facility was downgraded to secret, but there was still plenty of TS stuff in the safes and all of the scientists still maintained their TS and above clearances.

Long story short, we'd get to have lunch with the scientists now and again and they would give us the scoop (in general terms......no classified stuff revealed, per se.) on some past projects and the basics on some of the then current stuff they were working on. You can bet that the U.S. has considerably more efficient ways to get hydrogen from water than Siemans does. I would not be surprised if the U.S. Navy did not have a black project or two going with a much more advanced (10-20 years ahead of the Germans) version of the separation and propulsion system.

The U.S. military has suffered periodically due to budget issues and the occasional commander-in-chief who loathes the military, but there is not another nation out there that is within 50 years of developing some of the stuff we have.

Quote from a Jeane Manning article about Ben Rich, the former head of Lockheed Skunk Works..."Ben Rich of Lockheed Skunkworks, prior to his death, confirmed to a CSETI consultant that 'we already have the means to travel among the stars, but these technologies are locked up in black projects and it would take an act of God to ever get them out to benefit humanity'." (This is true. British hacker Gary McKinnon managed to crack a military computer that discusses U.S. Navy officers stationed aboard non-terrestial "ships". Apparently we have a half dozen or so of these vessels that Ben Rich spoke of. ) (Do not yet think any other nation has space ships with interstellar capability........and we have several)

Are you watching too much Stargate SG-1?

Actually no, crobato. In fact there is a guy on the internet who has a 13" telescope with a video camera attached and he has managed to video some interesting stuff in orbit. He's taken pictures of several spy satellites as well as at least two apparent heretofore unknown space stations, one of which showed an unconventional vessel attached to it. Also remember that Ben Rich is not some crackpot.

I know it sounds farfetched. There have been some additional leaks of this as well. The technology of interstellar travel apparently involves a sophisticated drive system (I've read a leaked description of it, but do not have the technical background to describe it properly) coupled with taking advantage of an anomaly that occurs in space whereby you can enter certain voids or tunnels which will somehow allow the traversing of vast distances in relatively short periods of time. I believe it takes us about 9 months to travel 35 light years. (again based on leaked info.)

Eventually, though it may be a while, the truth will come out. Also, ask yourself why we never went back to the moon. It's obvious now that we don't need the moon as a base, although we will probably begin mining the helium 3 from it at some point, since the military has spacecraft that are capable of point to point interstellar travel.

Some of the stuff Walson has been videotaping in orbit.....Link:

Judgement Day said:

Actually no, crobato. In fact there is a guy on the internet who has a 13" telescope with a video camera attached and he has managed to video some interesting stuff in orbit. He's taken pictures of several spy satellites as well as at least two apparent heretofore unknown space stations, one of which showed an unconventional vessel attached to it. Also remember that Ben Rich is not some crackpot.

I know it sounds farfetched. There have been some additional leaks of this as well. The technology of interstellar travel apparently involves a sophisticated drive system (I've read a leaked description of it, but do not have the technical background to describe it properly) coupled with taking advantage of an anomaly that occurs in space whereby you can enter certain voids or tunnels which will somehow allow the traversing of vast distances in relatively short periods of time. I believe it takes us about 9 months to travel 35 light years. (again based on leaked info.)

Eventually, though it may be a while, the truth will come out. Also, ask yourself why we never went back to the moon. It's obvious now that we don't need the moon as a base, although we will probably begin mining the helium 3 from it at some point, since the military has spacecraft that are capable of point to point interstellar travel.

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Sounds like a conspiracy theory, and there are people who claim evidence that we never went to the Moon as well. And there are people that claim we got a lot of vital technologies from aliens that crashed in Roswell.

All those pictures can mean anything. How do you know how Russian or Chinese satellites look? We're still trying to go to Mars, and the US is trying to return to the Moon.

If someone tries to rationally debunk, they're tagged as a part of the government conspiracy.

These are things that should belong to this.



That's why you leave things to the scientists.

As for the pictures, some of the ships there definitely looks Klingon. I can make out the outline of a K'Tinga or D7 battlecruiser there.