Taiwan Military News, Reports, Data, etc.

tupolevtu144 said:

taiwan is said (by domestic media) to have one of the densest air defenses in the world.

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You are aware that's majority of the numbers are made up of Stringer MANPADS right?

In fact I remember very well last year they wheeled out the old MIM-23 Hawk again, near schools and other civilian buildings too and people went "aww nuts, those things are still in service."

tupolevtu144 said:

So basically: US is going to sell a billion-dollar arms package to Taiwan including the following 7 weapons:
1. MQ-9 Reaper reconnaissance variant (confirmed)
2. Land-based Harpoon AShM (confirmed)
3. HIMARS (confirmed)
4. AGM-84H/K SLAM-ER (confirmed)
5. an unspecified type of naval mine (confirmed)
6. M109A6 Paladin (very possible)
7. ??? (don't know) [recently some less-credible Taiwanese media outlets are saying that the 7th weapon is the Abrams tank, however what variant exactly is going to be sold is still unknown]"

The highlighted 2 are the 2 sales that has already taken place: 36 sets of Harpoons (with more coming in the future) and an undisclosed number of himars systems

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1 doesn't matter
2 is important
3 is also important
4 doesnt matter
5 important (dont know which one they are going to sell though)
6 IMO not important (debatable)
7 doesn't matter

IMO from your list, the Harpoons, HIMARS, and the naval mine are the most useful systems for Taiwan

However it is also important to get them in quantity. If they just get 1-2 then it wont do much.

HIMARS can be used for attacking the mainland (obv the land opposite to Taiwan)

Harpoons for anti-ship purposes

Naval mine for denying naval access to their waters from PLAN

So 3 components here.

Anti-land, anti-ship, and anti-ship/landing purposes. Pretty good for Taiwan

Temstar said:

You are aware that's majority of the numbers are made up of Stringer MANPADS right?

In fact I remember very well last year they wheeled out the old MIM-23 Hawk again, near schools and other civilian buildings too and people went "aww nuts, those things are still in service."

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to be fair the hawks have been upgraded to be guided with a domestic "bee-eye" aesa radar and the hawks are to be soon replaced with land-based tc-2 missiles for the next several years

voyager1 said:

1 doesn't matter
2 is important
3 is also important
4 doesnt matter
5 important (dont know which one they are going to sell though)
6 IMO not important (debatable)
7 doesn't matter

IMO from your list, the Harpoons, HIMARS, and the naval mine are the most useful systems for Taiwan

However it is also important to get them in quantity. If they just get 1-2 then it wont do much.

HIMARS can be used for attacking the mainland (obv the land opposite to Taiwan)

Harpoons for anti-ship purposes

Naval mine for denying naval access to their waters from PLAN

So 3 components here.

Anti-land, anti-ship, and anti-ship/landing purposes. Pretty good for Taiwan

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wait how does the slam-er not matter??

some mistakes though:
the himars will be mostly used for attacking landing crafts
the paladin will come with guided ammo - will be useful in beach defense

tupolevtu144 said:

the himars will be mostly used for attacking landing crafts

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You are right on the Himars. Made a mistake, thought it had 5 times more range lol


So I will just note there that I heavily doubt that these weapons systems will be useful in a real combat scenario with China having air dominance

tupolevtu144 said:

wait how does the slam-er not matter??

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It is air-launched. In what (realistic) scenario can you see Taiwan having a chance to launch so many missiles to make an impact? From what I see, the air will be controlled by China

IMO Taiwan should go for mass missile/artillery defence. It is obvious that they wont be able to retain air control, so ideally they should have many mobile weapons, with high range, launched from land.

If Taiwan bets on its airforce or its Navy (sans subs) then they will pay dearly for it. Much better to focus on its land component

Best strategy would be to ensure a 2nd strike capability to destroy the next to it, Xiamen and Quanzhou. As long as they can maintain a credible deference then thats should be their goal.

voyager1 said:

You are right on the Himars. Made a mistake, thought it had 5 times more range lol


So I will just note there that I heavily doubt that these weapons systems will be useful in a real combat scenario with China having air dominance

It is air-launched. In what (realistic) scenario can you see Taiwan having a chance to launch so many missiles to make an impact? From what I see, the air will be controlled by China

IMO Taiwan should go for mass missile/artillery defence. It is obvious that they wont be able to retain air control, so ideally they should have many mobile weapons, with high range, launched from land.

If Taiwan bets on its airforce or its Navy (sans subs) then they will pay dearly for it. Much better to focus on its land component

Best strategy would be to ensure a 2nd strike capability to destroy the next to it, Xiamen and Quanzhou. As long as they can maintain a credible deference then thats should be their goal.

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it is true that taiwan is betting hard on its navy and air force. theres a reason the air force nd navy is undergoing rapid modernization while most of the army is ignored at the moment. for the navy part taiwan is relying on fast missile crafts (even the new coast guard ships are fast missile crafts without their missiles), supersonic ashm and hunter-killer subs while for the air force part taiwan is purchasing as many f-16v and upgrading its f-16 fleet to f-16v standards asap.

as for the artillery defense part taiwan is looking for mobile guided arty (hence the paladin with guided ammo) and rocket arty (domestic production) while the missile defense will be done with fixed and mobile hf-2 launchers coupled with the new harpoon launchers. the arty and missile defense will be complemented with traditional arty/tanks/firearms as well as precision atgms like the javelin. taiwan is also looking to produce guided hyda rockets so their attack choppers as well as their new unmanned rocket turret can be used for coastal defense as well.

2nd stike capability is an interesting question because taiwan is indeed developing the hf-2e which is said to be able to trike shanghai as well as a super elusive yung-feng short-range ballistic missile (think of the scud) which is said to be able to strike beijing.

tupolevtu144 said:

it is true that taiwan is betting hard on its navy and air force. theres a reason the air force nd navy is undergoing rapid modernization while most of the army is ignored at the moment. for the navy part taiwan is relying on fast missile crafts (even the new coast guard ships are fast missile crafts without their missiles), supersonic ashm and hunter-killer subs while for the air force part taiwan is purchasing as many f-16v and upgrading its f-16 fleet to f-16v standards asap.

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Focusing on ROC-A is a dual edge sword.

If it have to come down to the Army, then I see ROC-A and ROC-MC rapidly collapsing. Unit will ha hard pressed to trust one another, as some would defect/surrender. So you can spend more on the Army, but if it came down to that phase, all that gear will eventually wind up in the PLA inventory.

As for mines, torpedoes and ASCMs, I want to see what other opinion on some potential countermeasures.

Given that the Taiwan strait is shallow (100m) and relatively short. I can see PLA employing these following measures on top of EW suppression, deception and maybe even IFF disruption ()

Regarding the width of Taiwan strait, for the sake of operation it is really only around 50km, as PLA task force can probably linger just outside of the middle of the strait without providing ROC-N with any provocation for kinetic engagement. Given enough desensitization over multiple exercises, you can probably shrink the engagement range to around 30km.

So how do you preserve security in a area as long as 30km and as shallow as 100m?
1. Use PANAMAX container ship to shield critical task force assets. Devoid of cargo, 40ft container can act as applique armor blocks.
2. Use fishing trawler to "dredge" bottom clearing potential mine.
3. Trail commercial trawling flaps to act as a barrier for torpedoes, around capital ships.
4. Use China vast shipping and fishing and coast guard fleet to clutter the battlespace, potentially soaking up valuable munitions from capital ships.




While I am familiar with naval and air systems, I'm a ground pounder at heart, so these speculations are likely pure fantasy.

steel21 said:

Focusing on ROC-A is a dual edge sword.

If it have to come down to the Army, then I see ROC-A and ROC-MC rapidly collapsing. Unit will ha hard pressed to trust one another, as some would defect/surrender. So you can spend more on the Army, but if it came down to that phase, all that gear will eventually wind up in the PLA inventory.

As for mines, torpedoes and ASCMs, I want to see what other opinion on some potential countermeasures.

Given that the Taiwan strait is shallow (100m) and relatively short. I can see PLA employing these following measures on top of EW suppression, deception and maybe even IFF disruption (

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)

Regarding the width of Taiwan strait, for the sake of operation it is really only around 50km, as PLA task force can probably linger just outside of the middle of the strait without providing ROC-N with any provocation for kinetic engagement. Given enough desensitization over multiple exercises, you can probably shrink the engagement range to around 30km.

So how do you preserve security in a area as long as 30km and as shallow as 100m?
1. Use PANAMAX container ship to shield critical task force assets. Devoid of cargo, 40ft container can act as applique armor blocks.
2. Use fishing trawler to "dredge" bottom clearing potential mine.
3. Trail commercial trawling flaps to act as a barrier for torpedoes, around capital ships.
4. Use China vast shipping and fishing and coast guard fleet to clutter the battlespace, potentially soaking up valuable munitions from capital ships.


View attachment 73706

While I am familiar with naval and air systems, I'm a ground pounder at heart, so these speculations are likely pure fantasy.

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ure right the army and marine corps isnt really receiving much love at the moment because the current doctrine focuses on destroying all enemy on the ocean and on the beach aka basically stop the pla from creating a beachhead and landing zone at all costs. if you look at the exercises the taiwanese army have conducted in the recent years its mostly either coastal defense/coastal assault (for recapturing islands), anti-landing ops and choke point defense. If the taiwanese army and marine corps are planning to fight an all-out land war was then you'll see them practicing urban warfare and gurella warfare and such but no...

tupolevtu144 said:

ure right the army and marine corps isnt really receiving much love at the moment because the current doctrine focuses on destroying all enemy on the ocean and on the beach aka basically stop the pla from creating a beachhead and landing zone at all costs. if you look at the exercises the taiwanese army have conducted in the recent years its mostly either coastal defense/coastal assault (for recapturing islands), anti-landing ops and choke point defense. If the taiwanese army and marine corps are planning to fight an all-out land war was then you'll see them practicing urban warfare and gurella warfare and such but no...

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Taiwanese do not have the stomach for a Grozny style battle.

Even the die hard TI froggies are all talk. Tell them to strap on a SVIED and they will turn into an ardent CCP supporter on the spot. These bitches are all talk. With COVID management going as shitty as it is, and PRC handling as well as it does, there is a growing under current of "just letting the pros" handle it.

Once PLA landed there will marginal resistance. Some will actually assist the PLA.

Taiwan is a hollow house of cards.

This is why they HAVE to spend on ROC-AF and ROC-N, because one the air and naval war is lost, then it is game over.

People who do this kind of shit and call it tactics, have no hope. This is the kind of shit my 7 year old thinks of trying to battle Decepticons, not a professional force planning a concerted urban ops.

steel21 said:

Taiwanese do not have the stomach for a Grozny style battle.

Even the die hard TI froggies are all talk. Tell them to strap on a SVIED and they will turn into an ardent CCP supporter on the spot. These bitches are all talk. With COVID management going as shitty as it is, and PRC handling as well as it does, there is a growing under current of "just letting the pros" handle it.

Once PLA landed there will marginal resistance. Some will actually assist the PLA.

Taiwan is a hollow house of cards.

This is why they HAVE to spend on ROC-AF and ROC-N, because one the air and naval war is lost, then it is game over.

People who do this kind of shit and call it tactics, have no hope. This is the kind of shit my 7 year old thinks of trying to battle Decepticons, not a professional force planning a concerted urban ops.

View attachment 73707

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so off topic here: i mean as u may know already im from taiwan and im currently studying in college. we have this mandatory "national defense class" where officers from the taiwanese military will teach us defense-related stuff, and even my teacher who is an officer at a air-defense radar regiment admitted that the taiwanese military is no match to the pla and that the taiwanese military can only at most drag out a pla offensive until the us military intervenes lol. he also says that the higher-ups are very clear about this so the most they can do is to conduct ocean and coastal defense to slow down the pla until us troops can arrive in taiwan to defend the island lol