Taiwan Military News, Reports, Data, etc.


Gollevainen

Colonel
VIP Professional
Registered Member
Ok It's time to open a new thread for the subject as the previous one had to be closed as you guys couldn't play nice...:nono:

Altough our basic rules should prevent any of the past misconducts taking place, somehow even the members whom normally doesen't behaive nastly, are loosing their gribs over this matter. I know Taiwan is a controversial subject and raises strong feelings to direction or another but the forums policy doesen't give you guys room for those areas in which those strong emotions usually pops out.

So in order to get this thread moving smoothly, here are some more spesific rules and things to be remembered.

Thread etiquette
(Drafted by Fumanchu from our request)

Please note that this thread is reserved for discussion of Taiwanese military news, developments, etc. The following is a list of topics and comments that expressly forbidden:

- Discussion of the China-Taiwan relationship.
- Why does Taiwan need an army/Why does Taiwan need to buy weapons?
- Taiwan should unite with China/declare independence.
- China/Taiwan cannot win the war.

Do not try to dodge around this list - it is not exhaustive. Please remember to adhere to the general forum rules too.

It is best to avoid all diplomatic, economic and political discussion. Focus on news about the change in the Taiwanese armed forces.

These code of conducts are being executed even more vigilance manners than in other threads so be aware of breaking them. Any moderation will automaticly mean official warning to the one who forces us to intervene with his/her posts, regardless of the scale or the persons previous reputation.

So despite this harsh opening, I welcome you all to come here and discuss about the military issues of Taiwan.
 
Last edited:

FuManChu

Senior Member
Please note that the previous thread can be found here.

Please read through it before asking questions, as many issues have been dealt with and explained there.

-----

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


Chinese Nationalist Party (KMT) Legislator Shuai Hua-min (帥化民) said on Saturday US officials have told a delegation of Taiwanese legislators that Washington will go ahead with the sale of diesel-powered submarines to Taiwan even if the Democrats win next year's US presidential election.

The delegation was also told that four US companies that intend to participate in the bid have found European manufacturers to cooperate with, Shuai said.

In a visit arranged by the Ministry of Defense, Shuai, KMT Legislator Su Chi (蘇起), and Democratic Progressive Party (DPP) Legislator Mark Ho (何敏豪) arrived in Washington on Wednesday.

The delegation also visited companies that intend to participate in the bid for the diesel-powered submarines.
I thought the comment on European co-operation was interesting, as it appears there are ways to bypass the restrictions on direct European submarine sales to Taiwan. Of course what this co-operation would specifically be is an issue, but the fact that European companies are there to help at all is important for the project.
 

bd popeye

The Last Jedi
VIP Professional
I don't know who's going to build these boats for the ROCN. I see four companies are bidding. Any idea who? I bet Electric Boat is one...Also I would not all be surprised if the USN in the next couple of years orders a few SSK's....As we all know, this goes without sayin, this will be shared technology..
 
Last edited:

FuManChu

Senior Member
I don't know who's going to build these boats for the ROCN. I see four companise are bidding. Any idea who? I bet Electric Boat is one.
It could be the case that there will be co-operation, with more than one company winning the bid - I'm just speculating on that point.

I'm not sure who else is bidding, but the legislators' tour itinerary includes visits to General Dynamics' Bath Iron Works and Northrop Grumman Newport News, so that would suggest GD and NG are bidding too.

Also I would not all be surprised if the USN in the nestxt couple of years orders a few SSK's....As we all know, this goes without sayin, this will be shared technology..
Even if the USN didn't, having a production line for the export of submarines would be great for the US defence industry. It's an opportunity to impress the world and establish a reputation for the production of conventionally-powered submarines (something that a lot of countries want these days) that shouldn't be wasted.
 

adeptitus

Captain
VIP Professional
IMO the US has long considered submarines to be an offensive platform, and therefore did not like to export them. This is further complicated by the fact that USN has gone with all nuclear powered submarine fleet, they don't like to export nuclear-powered ships, and I doubt the surface-fleet admirals like the idea of submarine proliferation either.

It's very unlikely that Taiwan would obtain subs of Russian or Japanese design, so that leavers us with European designs, unless if the US somehow produce an entirely new design. If we look at recent EU sub designs, we have:

French Scopene
German HDW U-Boat (Type 2XX)
Swedish Gotland class
Dutch Walrus class (old)
Australian Collins class (non-EU)

Can anyone think of other possibilities? Brazilian Tupi class?
 

Jeff Head

General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Please note that the previous thread can be found here.

Please read through it before asking questions, as many issues have been dealt with and explained there.

-----

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!




I thought the comment on European co-operation was interesting, as it appears there are ways to bypass the restrictions on direct European submarine sales to Taiwan. Of course what this co-operation would specifically be is an issue, but the fact that European companies are there to help at all is important for the project.
I would not be surprised to learn, with their new administration in place, that the French are now willing to assist in this deal. we shall see.
 

FuManChu

Senior Member
I would not be surprised to learn, with their new administration in place, that the French are now willing to assist in this deal. we shall see.
Jeff, I was thinking the same thing - great minds think alike, eh? ;)

I'm sure direct sales will again be ruled out. But Sarkozy is a lot more willing to get on with the US. It doesn't mean he will actively help, but if French companies are involved with the US bidders.... he may look the other way and not block it.

unless if the US somehow produce an entirely new design.
What I've heard is that the US will either "obtain" a European design (maybe tweaking it so that it isn't instantly recognisable to avoid blow-back towards that country), or European knowledge will be used to modify the Barbel-class design, which to be honest isn't that bad. It's more the inner components and systems that need updating.
 

adeptitus

Captain
VIP Professional
I think a direct purchase from France is not likely to happen. As far as I know the corruption investigations on Mirage 2000 and La Fayette frigate purchases are still on-going. There are many articles on the web, if anyone is interested they can simply Google it.

French weapons also tend to be very expensive. Taiwan has its own shipyards, I'd advocate importing designs and critical components for local build/assembly. If S. Korea could do it, I don't see why Taiwan cannot. But unfortunately this deal is tied to the US, so I don't think they'd get away with not ordering subs built in US shipyards.
 
Last edited:

Finn McCool

Captain
Registered Member
I'm surprised that this deal actually went off at all, considering all the thing that could have gone wrong. However, mainly because the US doesn't really have diesel sub building capability readily available, this might take a while to come to fruition. Perhaps the Taiwanese will obtain an upgraded version of whatever the last US diesel sub was and produce it in Taiwan.
 

Clouded Leopard

Junior Member
A European nation who supplied blueprints and tech transfer for a submarine for Taiwan would likely face retaliation from China as if it had sold the sub directly. (Of course, even with that logic, one shouldn't expect France or anyone else to sell directly....)
 

Top