Shanghai Cooperation Organisation (SCO) and Global South strategic cooperation

Michael90 said:

Reason I said Vietnamese leaders are better students of Chinas success than North Korea who seem to have learned basically nothing . The results are clear for all to see. Vietnam is growing much faster (fastest in ASEAN. actually) and improving at a much faster rate despite coming from a far poorer/backward situation than puongyang. Will be interesting to see how Vietnam develops this coming decade, at the rate they are moving , they will soon be one of the most developed countries in South east Asia in a decade or two.
well done to VCP . Always better to learn from a successful friend/neighbor or even rival .

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Vietnam is unified country that has peaceful trade relations with its former enemies, while North Korea is a divided country that is actively at war with its enemies and under heavy global sanctions. It's really an apples to oranges comparison.

North Korea's basic security situation hasn't been fixed. China is so powerful and big, even US initiated reapproachment as a quasi-ally against USSR, which lead to economic trade that followed soon after. North Korea doesn't have China's advantage to secure reapproachment with US and secure favorable trade relations because US wants regime change and wants a reason to stay in SK colony forever.

A rather subtle victory here for the longstanding Chinese position of compartmentalization vs the Indian position of linkage.

A cautious reset in

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is taking root, according to analysts, with the two rivals increasingly walling off their border disputes from expanding cooperation on trade, security and multilateral diplomacy. The clearest marker yet came last week in New Delhi, where the two sides held their first-ever bilateral consultations focused exclusively on the

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(SCO), the Eurasian security bloc that also includes Russia, Iran, Pakistan and four Central Asian states.

Atul Kumar, a fellow at the Delhi-based Observer Research Foundation’s strategic studies programme, said the SCO bilateral meeting signalled a compartmentalisation of India-China ties, with border disputes being decoupled from multilateral cooperation.

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For reference, regarding the historical positions of both India and China:

The long-neglected port of Gwadar processed more traffic last month than it did during the entire year of 2025.

On April 16, two cargo vessels

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at Gwadar Port, carrying 368.7 tons of machinery and general cargo goods, as well as 5,000 metric tons of fertilizer. Earlier in the month, another cargo ship brought over 14,000 metric tons of transshipment cargo goods. So far in April, Gwadar has handled around

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standard shipping containers. For a port that handled around 8,300 containers in all of 2025 and historically has not seen more than

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dock in an entire year, the current activity is unprecedented.

The recent surge in

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is driven by regional dynamics and geopolitical tensions, especially connected to the Strait of Hormuz. In recent months, Hormuz has dominated world media

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to an extent that has rarely been seen before. This is largely because of the Israel-U.S. war on Iran and the repeated closure, reopening, and

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of the Strait of Hormuz. Being such an important global energy route, these disruptions have sent

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through global markets, causing supply shortages and surging oil prices.

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Wrought said:

The long-neglected port of Gwadar processed more traffic last month than it did during the entire year of 2025.

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Why has the e port not been successful as planned?

Michael90 said:

Why has the e port not been successful as planned?

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The port was completed in 2007 and initially operated by the Port of Singapore Authority (PSA), but due to underutilization and disputes, management was later transferred to the China Overseas Port Holding Company (COPHC) in 2013.

The port only began to see meaningful traffic growth after 2013. Development result takes decades, example Shenzhen city took 30 years, so it's been only 13 years since COPHC took over from Singapore's PSA.

The key is not the port itself but the economic development in areas connected to the port, and this need Pakistan's effects to plan and implement overland transportation routes, electricity generations and grid network, telecommunication networks, industrial manufacturing zones, residential housing, schools, hospitals and so on. If Shenzhen took 30 years to develop under China speed, Gwadar probably would need at least 50 years from 2013.

Meanwhile Pakistan has approved Rs280 billion (8.875 Billion US dollar) worth of infrastructure projects under the Gwadar Smart Port City Master Plan, we should see what happen in 2035-2040.

lcloo said:

The port was completed in 2007 and initially operated by the Port of Singapore Authority (PSA), but due to underutilization and disputes, management was later transferred to the China Overseas Port Holding Company (COPHC) in 2013.

The port only began to see meaningful traffic growth after 2013. Development result takes decades, example Shenzhen city took 30 years, so it's been only 13 years since COPHC took over from Singapore's PSA.

The key is not the port itself but the economic development in areas connected to the port, and this need Pakistan's effects to plan and implement overland transportation routes, electricity generations and grid network, telecommunication networks, industrial manufacturing zones, residential housing, schools, hospitals and so on. If Shenzhen took 30 years to develop under China speed, Gwadar probably would need at least 50 years from 2013.

Meanwhile Pakistan has approved Rs280 billion (8.875 Billion US dollar) worth of infrastructure projects under the Gwadar Smart Port City Master Plan, we should see what happen in 2035-2040.

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lol knowing how incompetent the Pakistanis leadership and political establishment has been, I would say don’t have high hopes about them making this a success . I judge things for what they are not what I wish they are. Unfortunately the Pakistanis government as so far proven to be incompetent in many ways .
If this was Indonesia , Vietnam or Malaysia or even Thailand etc , then I would have higher hopes

Michael90 said:

lol knowing how incompetent the Pakistanis leadership and political establishment has been, I would say don’t have high hopes about them making this a success . I judge things for what they are not what I wish they are. Unfortunately the Pakistanis government as so far proven to be incompetent in many ways .
If this was Indonesia , Vietnam or Malaysia or even Thailand etc , then I would have higher hopes

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Indonesia?!

lcloo said:

The port was completed in 2007 and initially operated by the Port of Singapore Authority (PSA), but due to underutilization and disputes, management was later transferred to the China Overseas Port Holding Company (COPHC) in 2013.

The port only began to see meaningful traffic growth after 2013. Development result takes decades, example Shenzhen city took 30 years, so it's been only 13 years since COPHC took over from Singapore's PSA.

The key is not the port itself but the economic development in areas connected to the port, and this need Pakistan's effects to plan and implement overland transportation routes, electricity generations and grid network, telecommunication networks, industrial manufacturing zones, residential housing, schools, hospitals and so on. If Shenzhen took 30 years to develop under China speed, Gwadar probably would need at least 50 years from 2013.

Meanwhile Pakistan has approved Rs280 billion (8.875 Billion US dollar) worth of infrastructure projects under the Gwadar Smart Port City Master Plan, we should see what happen in 2035-2040.

Click to expand...

Michael90 said:

lol knowing how incompetent the Pakistanis leadership and political establishment has been, I would say don’t have high hopes about them making this a success . I judge things for what they are not what I wish they are. Unfortunately the Pakistanis government as so far proven to be incompetent in many ways .
If this was Indonesia , Vietnam or Malaysia or even Thailand etc , then I would have higher hopes

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I think @Icloo made a fair point as well when he mentioned that Pakistan has already approved Rs280 billion (around US$8.8 billion) worth of infrastructure projects under the Gwadar Smart Port City Master Plan & that the real assessment period will probably be around 2035–2040 rather than trying to judge the project prematurely today.

That’s why the “Pakistanis are simply incompetent” argument feels somewhat oversimplified. Gwadar’s slower pace is not just about governance issues as people casually frame it. The port is already connected through CPEC infrastructure, the Makran Coastal Highway & now even the new Gwadar International Airport is operational. The issue has always been far more geopolitical and strategic than many outsiders realize.

Gwadar directly competes with established regional trade hubs like Dubai’s ports & also Iran’s Chabahar project (which itself now seems to be turning into a struggling/dead project under sanctions and geopolitical pressure), so one can already see how regional competition & external dynamics affect development speed. On top of that, the region has faced long-standing security & insurgency challenges, including external interference & infiltration efforts by India aimed at keeping Baluchistan unstable & discouraging investment confidence.

Also, a port alone does not magically create prosperity overnight — the surrounding economic ecosystem matters more than the harbor itself. Industrial zones, transport corridors, energy infrastructure, housing, logistics, telecommunications, and manufacturing activity all take decades to mature. Even globally successful port cities went through long developmental phases before becoming major economic hubs.

So the slower development is the result of multiple complex factors — security, geopolitics, regional competition, connectivity build-up & long-term industrial planning — not a simplistic one-dimensional narrative. The broader strategic environment around Gwadar is far more complicated than many online discussions make it seem.

Black Wolf said:

Gwadar directly competes with established regional trade hubs like Dubai’s ports & also Iran’s Chabahar project (which itself now seems to be turning into a struggling/dead project under sanctions and geopolitical pressure), so one can already see how regional competition & external dynamics affect development speed. On top of that, the region has faced long-standing security & insurgency challenges, including external interference & infiltration efforts by India aimed at keeping Baluchistan unstable & discouraging investment confidence.

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More significantly, Gwadar competes with the port of Karachi in Pakistan, which is only 500km away.
And Karachi port is anchored by a city with 18 million people.

Having said that, given Pakistan's population, I think Gwadar would grow at least 5x to a population of 500,000

AndrewS said:

More significantly, Gwadar competes with the port of Karachi in Pakistan, which is only 500km away.
And Karachi port is anchored by a city with 18 million people.

Having said that, given Pakistan's population, I think Gwadar would grow at least 5x to a population of 500,000

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I don’t think Karachi & Gwadar are really in direct competition in the way many people assume. Karachi Port has been Pakistan’s primary commercial maritime hub since the late 19th/early 20th century & mainly serves Pakistan’s own import-export economy, industrial base & massive urban population centered around Karachi itself.

Gwadar’s intended long-term role is somewhat different. Its strategic value is tied more toward regional transit connectivity — particularly western China through CPEC, Afghanistan & potentially the Central Asian republics — rather than replacing Karachi as Pakistan’s main domestic trade port. So, comparing a century-old mega port-city with an emerging strategic transit hub still in its early development phase is not entirely justified.

That said, I do agree Gwadar’s population & economic footprint will likely expand substantially over time. Much of the regional connectivity infrastructure has already been established through CPEC links, the Makran Coastal Highway & the new international airport. Gwadar Port is also undergoing major rail integration under CPEC, including the proposed 1,087 km Jacobabad–Gwadar rail line & the 680 km Gwadar–Nok Kundi connection aimed at linking the port with Pakistan’s wider rail network & regional trade corridors toward western China & beyond.

So, the real question now is not whether connectivity exists, but how quickly industrial activity, transit trade, logistics & supporting economic ecosystems develop around that connectivity over the coming decades.