Russia sells S-400 systems to China


taxiya

Major
Registered Member
why not just drove those trucks to China? faster than the ship, no trouble of loading and unloading on the train. How would the Russians deploy their S-400/300 to their Pacific coast?
 

Actual Decepticon

Just Hatched
Registered Member
Any links to sources for that?
Руководитель Бюро военно-политического анализа Александр Михайлов рассказал в беседе с «Известиями», почему Китай предпочел доставку российских зенитных ракетных систем С-400 «Триумф» по морскому пути вместо сухопутного или авиаперевозок.

Ранее 24 июля стало известно, что Россия
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в Китай второго полкового комплекта ЗРК С-400 морским транспортом. Отмечается, что транспортное судно с первой партией техники отправилось в путь из порта Усть-Луга на Балтике.

По словам Михайлова, транспортировка систем С-400 морским путем была выбором китайской стороны и КНР брала на себя связанные с этим риски.

-snip-

В целом вопросы транспортировки приобретенных партнерами России систем вооружений обговариваются еще в ходе заключения договора о покупке, добавил военный политолог.

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Translation of the relevant part: According to [Alexander] Mikhailov [Director of the
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], the transportation of S-400 systems by sea was the choice of the Chinese side and China assumed the risks associated with this.
-snip-
In general, the matters of shipping of weapons systems being acquired by Russian partners' are discussed during the weapons purchase negotiations.
 

taxiya

Major
Registered Member
Long story short: No. God no. Hell no.

S-300P/400 is entirely transportable by railroad, including missiles.
Are you saying this one can be loaded onto a single train car in one piece?
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I never said impossible, just said it may be more troublesome such as due to the length and width, it has to be dissembled into pieces, negate the advantage of train.
 
LOL time to upgrade:

"It has been speculated that China could be a leading client for
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which entered production earlier in 2019, a platform designed to neutralise high value targets such as AWACS and satellites at extreme ranges of up to 600km."

according to
Russia Begins Delivery of Second S-400 Regiment to China
July-26th-2019
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by the way the S-500 project name is Prometheus (the S-400 is Triumph)
 

plawolf

Brigadier
Well, we don't know if the missiles were severely damaged or dropped in the sea last time, the Russians' words "liquidate" can be interpreted in many ways, who knows.
With such expensive and highly classified missiles, the ship carrying them would 100% be special chartered, and was probably carrying dedicated protection details. This is supported by the fact that the transport ship headed back as soon as the accident happened.

There is simply no way anyone in their right minds would stick state-of-the-art missiles on a commercial container ship, and such valuable missiles would not be stored on deck.

As such, the chances of any of them ending up overboard would be zero in my view.

I think it’s safe to conclude that the last shipment was damaged, either through flooding; falling of other similar mishap; and the Russians scrapped the lot.

As for why China asked for Sea freight, well I think it’s probably to do with opsec.

With rail transport, those missiles, TELs, radars and associated equipment would be clear for all to see even if you cover them with tarp.

The high visibility and low speed of rail over such long distances means it pretty much guaranteed that interested foreign parties would know about the shipment before it arrived at its destination.

With rail, it’s not like there are that many turnoffs, making it pretty easy to track the shipment.

With sea freight, unless there was a serious security breach, it would be extremely hard for foreign intelligence to work out which ship the missiles are on.

With China’s vast shipping infrastructure and the sheer volume of normal trade flow, even if foreign intelligence found out which ship was delivering the missiles, it would be incredibly easy for China to ‘loose’ those containers carrying the missiles in its commercial freight network and make it near impossible for outsiders to track where the missiles went after they landed.
 

Actual Decepticon

Just Hatched
Registered Member
Are you saying this one can be loaded onto a single train car in one piece?
Why on Earth would anyone want to load a two-piece vehicle of such size onto a single train platform?

Russian needs, ideas and overall approach to ensuring the strategic mobility of Air Defense systems aside, before the system is adopted by the Russian Armed Forces or handed over to foreign customer, all of them undergo a series of trials on a specialized weapons ranges. When it comes to long- and extra-long-range surface-to-air missile systems, all of them are tested at Kapustin Yar, Ashuluk, etc.

How do you think the hardware arrives there? Why, by railroad of course.




P.S. S-300PM-x Missile fires on Ashuluk, 2013.
 

taxiya

Major
Registered Member
Why on Earth would anyone want to load a two-piece vehicle of such size onto a single train platform?

Russian needs, ideas and overall approach to ensuring the strategic mobility of Air Defense systems aside, before the system is adopted by the Russian Armed Forces or handed over to foreign customer, all of them undergo a series of trials on a specialized weapons ranges. When it comes to long- and extra-long-range surface-to-air missile systems, all of them are tested at Kapustin Yar, Ashuluk, etc.

How do you think the hardware arrives there? Why, by railroad of course.




P.S. S-300PM-x Missile fires on Ashuluk, 2013.
You should NOT have omitted the second half of my original post when replying, that omission changed the context. Here is the original.
Are you saying this one can be loaded onto a single train car in one piece?

I never said impossible, just said it may be more troublesome such as due to the length and width, it has to be dissembled into pieces, negate the advantage of train.
Your reply in this post agrees with my statement that "the rail transportation has to be in pieces", don't you?

My second sentence state that this breaking down negate the advantage of train, do you agree? I did NOT say "should NOT use train", did I? I said (in China's case) it may be less a trouble using ship, didn't I?

You seems to be more interested in creating a disagreement, real or not, rather than understanding the whole thing. Being combative is not necessary.
 

Anlsvrthng

Senior Member
Registered Member
Translation of the relevant part: According to [Alexander] Mikhailov [Director of the
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], the transportation of S-400 systems by sea was the choice of the Chinese side and China assumed the risks associated with this.
-snip-
In general, the matters of shipping of weapons systems being acquired by Russian partners' are discussed during the weapons purchase negotiations.
The contract incoterm is EXW
 

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