if long range multiaxis attack and rapid build speed is whats important why not have some VLS equipped SSKs like Korean KSS-III?
PLA strike strategies in westpac HIC
- Thread starter SEAD
- Start date
Because it's not just about multiaxis attack, but about being able to have the endurance, range and speed to effectively get to your mission area, loiter there if needed (during peacetime prior to hostilities), and get back on a timely basis. And to ideally also do effective open water subsurface missions which SSNs are oriented for and SSKs are terrible at.
For the kind of mission profile tphuang is describing, only nuclear submarines are appropriate for the PLAN.
PLA SSNs are much more useful as convoy hunters. Americans needs to supply plenty of materials to its bases in the West Pac and Japan. Imagine a fleet of 10+ SSN moving around the known routes between CONUS and Japan/Guam/Hawaii/etc and inform PLA where to look for the merchant fleets. PLA can either use DF-26, H-6(H-20 in the future) or naval task forces to take them out. US navy will be forced to divert parts of their fleet to hunt down the subs and to protect the convoys instead of attacking PLA assets.
So, you want to place SSNs in between CONUS and westpac to do ISR? Would this be for the period after a successful opening phase of a conflict? The calculus will be quite different depending on how the opening phase works out. One has to consider whether or not ISR satellites would be able to do the same job and whether or not this would make it easier for SSNs to be discovered? After all, SSN would have to get to periscope depth to do communication with satellites in order to pass on its targeting data.
I think if SSN can get into central Pacific without getting tailed, its top mission should be to get within range of a USN capital ship that is sitting in docks or under repairs and launch ASBMs against it.
8 093B is not a big number. I don't have any sense on the availability of Chinese nuclear submarines. Having 3 out of 8 being available vs having 6 out of 8 available are completely different scenarios. I'd also be curious how many active SSNs US military would be able to field in west pac in the opening phase of a conflict.
With about 50 SSNs, they have 6 on patrol at any time.
So if China has 8 SSNs, we could expect 1 on patrol, but most of the rest ready to surge
Yes. I mean, I've been having this discussion with a generous assumption that they would have more than half of their SSNs available, so sure let's say 6 out of 8 09IIIB SSNs available.
My view is that even with 6 out of 8 09IIIBs available -- heck, even if they had 8 out of 8 09IIIBs available, it is probably a dicey proposition to use them in the onset-of-conflict strike role in a circa mid to late 2020s scenario.
I wouldn't use them for the opening phase of the conflict. The land/aerial-based systems should be sufficient to smash everything on the first island chain and seriously threaten bases on Guam and Japanese main islands. SSN acting as ISR nodes would greatly augment the system and regardless where they are, their presences in the Pacific ocean will force US navy to divert ships and assets away from West Pac to protect their convoys.
I know nothing about the SATCOM systems being used on Chinese subs, but if they use something similar to the ones being used on large UAVs which are tight-beam systems (usage of parabolic dishes), the chance of them being discovered in the middle of the ocean will be low.
I don't think attacking CONUS bases are that useful with such a low number of SSNs.
I think your original suggestion for using SSNs as "convoy hunters" is reasonable.
I would broaden that to "general subsurface harassment and engaging targets of opportunity of opfor surface ships".
However, using SSNs only for "ISR" doesn't make a lot of sense in a real-time high intensity war environment.
It is not uncommon for SSNs to do the ISR (more often SIGINT) role during wartime by virtue of their stealth and ability to get close to fixed targets and gather information.
But in wartime, it is more dubious.
Hi @Blitzo
Here is how I would use the PLAN SSNs:
After the start of the hostilities, PLAN will destroy as much of the SOSUS systems as it can and PLA as a whole will destroy as much of the fuel depots and other support systems located in Japan and second island chain as possible. PLAN SSNs will then be sent to the middle of the Pacific Ocean to find American convoys. PLAAF will flood the West Pac with ultra-long endurance stratospheric UAVs such as 快云 and 飞云. When an SSN find a convoy, it will tail it for awhile to find out the number of ships, composition (if possible), heading and speed of the convoy. It will then run away to a safe distance and transmit the info the headquarter using SatCom. PLA will then send a few UAVs and/or satellites to monitor areas close to the Japanese main islands and Guam when the convoys are supposed to arrive. Once the convoy is located, the PLA will attack them.
Here is how I would use the PLAN SSNs:
After the start of the hostilities, PLAN will destroy as much of the SOSUS systems as it can and PLA as a whole will destroy as much of the fuel depots and other support systems located in Japan and second island chain as possible. PLAN SSNs will then be sent to the middle of the Pacific Ocean to find American convoys. PLAAF will flood the West Pac with ultra-long endurance stratospheric UAVs such as 快云 and 飞云. When an SSN find a convoy, it will tail it for awhile to find out the number of ships, composition (if possible), heading and speed of the convoy. It will then run away to a safe distance and transmit the info the headquarter using SatCom. PLA will then send a few UAVs and/or satellites to monitor areas close to the Japanese main islands and Guam when the convoys are supposed to arrive. Once the convoy is located, the PLA will attack them.
Last edited: