PLA Small arms

vesicles

Colonel
I think its time china loosened gun laws a bit, maybe not to the extent of the US but something like Canada, where they allow firearms ownership restricted to 5 round magazines, semi automatic only, and contingent on extremely stringent background checks and training like we have in Canada.

War is now very much a real possibility and its important China gets a reasonable proportion of its population familiarized or accustomed to firearms. Also, get Chinese people to stop spending on stupid Canada Goose LV and buy some Type 97s or bolt-actions to help domestic manufacturers instead.

Hopefully they can also loosen restrictions on abilities to buy NVG/thermal, since civilian demand can drive economies of scale. There doesn't have to be full militarization but something to extent of Russia would also be good. The US can quickly draw on massive man power since even its civilian population is reasonably militarized. Also as mentioned earlier, most US tech development in small arms comes from the private/civilian sector.

China already has the largest standing army in the world. Having additional people familiar with firearms is not too much help. Also, we are in an age of advanced weaponry. Complex and advanced systems of AF and Navy, as well as effective integration of multiple systems across various branches, are vital to China if they want to win any future conflict. And having the general public knowing how to shoot a gun is of no use.

Even back in the day of ancient warfare, teaching some guys how to use a spear or a knife is of no use. It's the disciplined training of different formations and communication among different units that makes the difference on the battlefield.
 

LawLeadsToPeace

Senior Member
Staff member
Moderator - World Affairs
Registered Member
Absolutely no, it turns my stomach to say this. But there is no choice. China does not dictate if other countries go to war with it. But it absolutely dictates the conditions of its eventual victory. Mobilization and militarization starts now.
If I remember correctly, Chinese citizens (particularly the college students) all receive extremely basic military training for a few weeks. If China really wants to mobilize everyone, it is really easy to do so. Plus, the PLA most likely has so many guns and ammo in their arsenal that they can easily equip multiple armies of militia. However, like what Vesicles said, today's warfare is different and complex. I would also add that it will be very quick due to the asymmetrical nature of a hypothetical US-China conflict. However, such a discussion is going to completely derail this thread, so I'm going to leave it at that.
 

Mt1701d

Junior Member
Registered Member
I think its time china loosened gun laws a bit, maybe not to the extent of the US but something like Canada, where they allow firearms ownership restricted to 5 round magazines, semi automatic only, and contingent on extremely stringent background checks and training like we have in Canada.

War is now very much a real possibility and its important China gets a reasonable proportion of its population familiarized or accustomed to firearms. Also, get Chinese people to stop spending on stupid Canada Goose LV and buy some Type 97s or bolt-actions to help domestic manufacturers instead.

Hopefully they can also loosen restrictions on abilities to buy NVG/thermal, since civilian demand can drive economies of scale. There doesn't have to be full militarization but something to extent of Russia would also be good. The US can quickly draw on massive man power since even its civilian population is reasonably militarized. Also as mentioned earlier, most US tech development in small arms comes from the private/civilian sector.
I have to disagree with loosening gun laws... if China want to go down this route a better option would be something akin to a national guard program... some longer term weekend soldiers but not full blown PAP... keep up the proper military training and firearms training without going down the rabbit hole with small arms proliferation in the country... a crazier idea tho, If China really wanted more fighting force... get all the kids on flight sims and UGV sims and leverage automated manufacturing and build the hell out of UAVs and UGVs
 

vesicles

Colonel
I will agree that a personal arms industry is not as efficient to national power as the regular military, but the way I see it is like this.

The average chinese citizen has alot of sectors where people would like to personally spend money on but cannot, they include hard drugs, prostitution, guns,... In all cases, there are very good reasons for government to limit consumer choice.

But remember, each time you restrict a consumer from spending on certain things, they will spend it on others. I believe firearms and night vision/thermal sensors/body armor is one where the restrictions can be relaxed slightly. I would envision allowing people to own firearms, but not being allowed to own bullets and only being able to shoot at a firing ranges which supplies bullets.

There is a lot of money spent in China on military models, airsoft, military paraphernalia which is basically just a substitute for firearms. Those items also do not have any synergy with military defense, unlike the civilian firearms industry in the US. Basically I am encouraging a civilian participation in the Chinese arms industry as an augment to the MIC rather than to replace it. Also, having a civilian arms industry would make china more export competitive in arms as well. You hear alot in the US how chinese arms are not designed well from a consumer usability perspective, and with a domestic market, china could focus on it. Small arms can also lead to more general awareness of chinese industry, facilitating heavy arms sales. China is being strangleholded by the US across many markets, but it has never aggressively developed small arms. While I dont expect china to develop a top tier small arms export (like italy, germany, or US) china should still not abdicate that market altogether.

Norinco, while capable, treats the arms market with exactly the sophistication of a 80's deng-era SOE. We need private versions of HK, Sig Sauer, Remington, Winchester like we have with DJI and Huawei.

You need to understand that American companies make most of their money providing their products to armed forces in wars all around the world. Domestic market is a nice bonus but not their major focus. It's nothing close to cover their costs.
 

Mt1701d

Junior Member
Registered Member
I will agree that a personal arms industry is not as efficient to national power as the regular military, but the way I see it is like this.

The average chinese citizen has alot of sectors where people would like to personally spend money on but cannot, they include hard drugs, prostitution, guns,... In all cases, there are very good reasons for government to limit consumer choice.

But remember, each time you restrict a consumer from spending on certain things, they will spend it on others. I believe firearms and night vision/thermal sensors/body armor is one where the restrictions can be relaxed slightly. I would envision allowing people to own firearms, but not being allowed to own bullets and only being able to shoot at a firing ranges which supplies bullets.

There is a lot of money spent in China on military models, airsoft, military paraphernalia which is basically just a substitute for firearms. Those items also do not have any synergy with military defense, unlike the civilian firearms industry in the US. Basically I am encouraging a civilian participation in the Chinese arms industry as an augment to the MIC rather than to replace it. Also, having a civilian arms industry would make china more export competitive in arms as well. You hear alot in the US how chinese arms are not designed well from a consumer usability perspective, and with a domestic market, china could focus on it. Small arms can also lead to more general awareness of chinese industry, facilitating heavy arms sales. China is being strangleholded by the US across many markets, but it has never aggressively developed small arms. While I dont expect china to develop a top tier small arms export (like italy, germany, or US) china should still not abdicate that market altogether.

Norinco, while capable, treats the arms market with exactly the sophistication of a 80's deng-era SOE. We need private versions of HK, Sig Sauer, Remington, Winchester like we have with DJI and Huawei.
Like I said before I don’t agree with a general loosening of gun laws and small arms proliferation, there would be way too many unknowns and don’t forget this would be a good opportunity for all the anti-China groups to fund ‘activists’... for a possible middle ground on consumer firearms market, make it cheaper and easier to have gun ranges or gun clubs... making it more accessible but still with a high degree of control...
 

by78

General
I think its time china loosened gun laws a bit, maybe not to the extent of the US but something like Canada, where they allow firearms ownership restricted to 5 round magazines, semi automatic only, and contingent on extremely stringent background checks and training like we have in Canada.

War is now very much a real possibility and its important China gets a reasonable proportion of its population familiarized or accustomed to firearms. Also, get Chinese people to stop spending on stupid Canada Goose LV and buy some Type 97s or bolt-actions to help domestic manufacturers instead.

Hopefully they can also loosen restrictions on abilities to buy NVG/thermal, since civilian demand can drive economies of scale. There doesn't have to be full militarization but something to extent of Russia would also be good. The US can quickly draw on massive man power since even its civilian population is reasonably militarized. Also as mentioned earlier, most US tech development in small arms comes from the private/civilian sector.

You are off-topic again. If you have a sudden thought that is only tenuously related to the topic at hand, do NOT put it here. Instead, take it to the Members' Club Room. Please stop derailing the thread.
 
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mglcz

New Member
Registered Member
Like I said before I don’t agree with a general loosening of gun laws and small arms proliferation, there would be way too many unknowns and don’t forget this would be a good opportunity for all the anti-China groups to fund ‘activists’... for a possible middle ground on consumer firearms market, make it cheaper and easier to have gun ranges or gun clubs... making it more accessible but still with a high degree of control...
Let me say this, if a supposed war gets to the point of needing to mobilize the chinese population to defend their homes, you have already lost. Money should be spent on high tech weapons and going down the path of civilian gun sales is the last thing you would want. Modern wars aren't fought with raw manpower, but cutting edge technology.
 

Mt1701d

Junior Member
Registered Member
Let me say this, if a supposed war gets to the point of needing to mobilize the chinese population to defend their homes, let's say you already lost.
Sure but you are only looking at this from the perspective of the worst case scenario... I have no doubt that China would be able to replace any equipment lost quickly with its industrial might... but they will still require soldiers to put in them... and not all of them needs to be specialised... at some point, war still requires boots on the ground, you can’t just bomb everything to smithereens, tho the Americans have tried they still needed boots on the ground in the end, and replacements will be necessary at some point... people who knows their weapons might help any training along...
Money should be spent on high tech weapons and going down the path of civilian gun sales is the last thing you would want.
I fully agree which was why I suggested the flight and UGV sims and mass production of these systems before... civilian gun isn’t necessarily the last thing... improvement in basic weaponry ie small arms is still relevant tho becoming less and less
Modern wars aren't fought with raw manpower, but cutting edge technology.
True... but we are not are the point of full automated war yet and manpower is still needed... For example if the majority of the PLA and maybe the PAP is committed abroad calling up temporary replacements at home might still be necessary for internal security reasons.

Anyway we have strayed too far off topic... if you want to further discuss this... we can continue with a new thread or other more appropriate threads as @by78 have suggested...
 

kriss

Junior Member
Registered Member
It's like sacrifice one of your kid for an extra orange for your other kids in the coming trip.
 

by78

General
BJC16 and CS/LS7 submachine guns with silencers and other mods.

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