News on China's scientific and technological development.

emblem21

Major
Registered Member
This is good news for China's Semiconductor Industry.

Yes....now SMIC, Huawei,YMTC & other FABs will work together with the Chinese Academy of Sciences (Changchun Institute) and SMEE to develop the latest DUV and EUV Lithographs. They will also ensure that a fully China made Chip production line will be developed and verified. This will provide plenty of Jobs and also give many opportunities for many Startups to go into Business.

I think Donald Trump will be fondly remembered in China as the American President who personally made sure that China developed its own EDA, EUV Lithograph, Semiconductors, Aircraft Turbofan Engines, Airliners etc.

I think there will be technical cooperation between Huawei and SMIC but i believe Huawei will go ahead to build its own FABs. Huawei will base its business model on Samsung and enter the FAB Business. Huawei has the financial resources to develop the latest Chips and be competitive. Together with the launch of the Open Source Harmony OS next year, this will be the beginning of big things for Huawei.

Recently Mr. Ni Guangnan, Computer Science Expert and Academician with the Chinese Academy of Engineering (CAS) confirmed that the SMEE 28nm Lithograph has been successfully developed. This means that this Lithograph is real and will be released next year.
I cannot wait to see this happen. Should this occur, the all of the chip companies will want to be in China’s good books or expect to lose there presence in China, to which they may end up going bankrupt as are result. Given the situation with the companies sueing Trump and his government now, they can see this happening and they may end up sinking the USA for messing with there profits in a fashion that is completely avoidable. Oh I can imagine once China is ready, many companies inthe USA will be moving there presence out of the USA if they cannot do business due to the US government over reach and because right now given the economic woes there (retail is shutting down rapidly there), the USA is not going to be the place to invest in the near future due to being that toxic of an environment.
 

Anlsvrthng

Captain
Registered Member
There was few news about the Russian import of ICs, and the Pentagon head complained about that the ICs required by missile seekers the same that example the Xbox Kinect use.

So many non radhard IC could have military double use.
 

siegecrossbow

General
Staff member
Super Moderator
There was few news about the Russian import of ICs, and the Pentagon head complained about that the ICs required by missile seekers the same that example the Xbox Kinect use.

So many non radhard IC could have military double use.

They banned sales of PlayStations to Iraq because apparently they could be used in missile launchers.
 

Orthan

Senior Member
Huawei and SMIC will work together now since both of them are in the same boat

No, they are not in the same boat. SMIC doesnt need to compete internationally. Huawei still needs to compete internationally, therefore still needs acess to US tech, it has now been granted acess to some US chips, and it shouldnt jeopardize that position.

I cannot wait to see this happen.

Learn to wait. Its going to take many years, if ever.
 

Anlsvrthng

Captain
Registered Member
I cannot wait to see this happen. Should this occur, the all of the chip companies will want to be in China’s good books or expect to lose there presence in China, to which they may end up going bankrupt as are result. Given the situation with the companies sueing Trump and his government now, they can see this happening and they may end up sinking the USA for messing with there profits in a fashion that is completely avoidable. Oh I can imagine once China is ready, many companies inthe USA will be moving there presence out of the USA if they cannot do business due to the US government over reach and because right now given the economic woes there (retail is shutting down rapidly there), the USA is not going to be the place to invest in the near future due to being that toxic of an environment.
Money follow the customers, and not interesting theories.

USA has the customers.
 
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emblem21

Major
Registered Member
Money follow the customers, and not interesting theories.

USA has the customers.
Now maybe but if they keep screwing up and business keep closing down, probably not. The health of an economy is based on the money flow of the majority of the people ( ie the working class), not the money being popped into wallet via the FED which only benefit the rich only. The majority of customers right now need food and supplies to survive this pandemic, not make new investments that don’t benefit in the short run. Also forcing other nations to buy low quality weapons isn’t going to save an economy
 

daifo

Captain
Registered Member
Money follow the customers, and not interesting theories.

USA has the customers.

The new customer and growth potential is outside of the usa/west, that is exactly why all the western mega-corp has been spreading "FREEEE MARKETTTTT, GLLOOOBAAL WORLD ORDER" until now that China has been able to challenge the west in manufacturing, technology, economy, military , independence etc.
 

gelgoog

Brigadier
Registered Member
No, they are not in the same boat. SMIC doesnt need to compete internationally. Huawei still needs to compete internationally, therefore still needs acess to US tech, it has now been granted acess to some US chips, and it shouldnt jeopardize that position.
...

No, SMIC does compete internationally, against TSMC (1st) and Samsung (2nd).

For example Apple sourced their smartphone and tablet CPUs from Samsung (South Korea) and later TSMC (Taiwan).
Samsung has an US fab at Austin but it has limited production capacity there. TSMC supposedly plans to build a US fab but currently has none.
The leading US fab company is GlobalFoundries, but they are owned by a Persian Gulf state and don't have enough capital to buy the latest machine tools or to design new processes anymore. So they are stuck at 14nm or 12nm I think. However GlobalFoundries uses a SOI process which is more suitable for telecommunications (radio) or radiation hardened chips than regular silicon so they have clients there. Intel does have fabs too but they are also behind TSMC and Samsung but still ahead of GlobalFoundries. Intel originally did not produce chips for 3rd parties but more recently this past decade they have started producing FPGAs for 3rd parties as they cannot ammortize the cost of their newer fabs with CPU production alone. Intel's business model is basically screwed. GlobalFoundries is a merger of several lagging semiconductor fabs the main of which used to be owned by AMD in the US and Germany. AMD since sold their fabs because they did not have enough capital from PC chip production to justify it and now outsource chip production to TSMC.

SMIC has less advanced manufacturing processes but lower prices than the competition.

Ever since SMIC got ex-TSMC personnel they managed to develop their own 14nm and soon, hopefully, N+1 that should be ~10nm.
They also have a roadmap to produce 7nm chips eventually using their existing DUV immersion lithography tools. Their process should be less efficient at producing chips than TSMC's because it will require more passes (with multiple-patterning). TSMC supposedly uses EUV on the passes which imprint the finer details on chips. China got banned from EUV tool imports and so SMIC had to come up with this less efficient process. 5nm and below it is unlikely they can produce chips with DUV alone. SMIC was ramping up their production lines for 14nm and 10nm production with immersion lithography and Huawei was one of their main customers. So don't say SMIC didn't try to support Huawei. Sometimes people think producing chips is easy but from design to initial manufacturing it takes 18 months time to produce a chip. You also cannot easily transfer a design from, say, TSMC to SMIC or vice-versa, or Samsung to TSMC or vice-versa, etc, because the processes aren't the same. You have to redesign the chip and tapeout. Huawei and SMIC did this for their 14nm smartphone processor the Kirin 710A.

Neither Taiwan nor South Korea produce lithography machine tools. The main DUV lithography tool vendors are in Europe (ASML) and Japan (Nikon) I think. There are other tool vendors but their tools do not support immersion which means they cannot be used at 45nm and below. Immersion lithography uses the same light sources but like the name implies uses water, besides just lenses, to focus the light. ASML is the only world supplier of EUV lithography tools. They are in the Netherlands but their lenses come from Germany and their EUV light sources come from Cymer in the USA. The US can basically cut their supply anytime they wish.

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