News on China's scientific and technological development.

> Africa/Latin America/Middle-East/ASEAN

These can be enough if China actually wins these markets. Problem is I have yet to see China seriously compete or win a PR war anywhere in the world.

In any case, China should not do the US work for them. While it's good to have a backup to Samsung, keep doing business with them until the US acts. Make the US actually take the step of threatening Samsung so Korea knows what the cost is of their situation.

gadgetcool5 said:

> Africa/Latin America/Middle-East/ASEAN

These can be enough if China actually wins these markets. Problem is I have yet to see China seriously compete or win a PR war anywhere in the world.

In any case, China should not do the US work for them. While it's good to have a backup to Samsung, keep doing business with them until the US acts. Make the US actually take the step of threatening Samsung so Korea knows what the cost is of their situation.

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You have to remember that China was already winning those markets that you mentioned.

That is why the USA has to resort to more extreme measures to try stop China, and is also trying to break the liberal trade and investment order that it created.

Huawei's Richard Yu: HarmonyOS will be used on PCs, tablets, and even phones

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Come on Harmony OS !!
I'm a developer ! i'll be harmony os dev !!

tamsen_ikard said:

As long as Trump and his former tea party member subordinates rule the roost, aka Pompeo, Josh Hawley and so on, No US action is impossible. They will go to any length to stop China's tech rise. Samsung is a korean firm, a US client-state. If US really squeezed the Korean govt, would they not give in? Of course they will. But if they did not, which impossible currently, US can easily squeeze Samsung by threatening to put it on the entity list or threatening US financial sanctions or threatening to bar it from the US market.

China simply cannot rely on American vassal states anymore. This means no Europeans, Koreans, Japanese, Taiwanese or Singaporean company is reliable. Guess what, these countries completely control the Chip industry.

China will have to start from scratch on this. A Chinese architecture or an open source one. Chinese lithography machine and all the other tools. They need to develop a new tech eco-system of hardware and software. A Chinese phone OS and Chinese internet services like Gmail/Google Maps.

Ofcourse they will not be able to do this overnight and possibly not in 30-40 years. So, they are trying to delay the inevitable western cutoff as long as possible to get as much time/profit/know-how as they can. But, this is only temporary. China will have to prepare for a complete tech blockade from US vassals. Does that mean China will not trade with them? No they will. But in low tech stuff like washing machine or car parts and oil.

China will have to develop its own tech system of everything and they will have to rely on non-western markets such as Africa/Latin America/Middle-East/ASEAN and its own vast market. Is it enough? It is, because these countries are the emerging markets and they are growing much faster than the rich western world. These countries have more population than the western vassal states. You cannot become a superpower while relying on your rival's courtesy. the rest if the world will be the battleground between two tech ecosystems. China was able to grow for many years without western attack. But that time is over. Its time for China to grow up and become truly independent.

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You are right on this. China cannot rely on American Charity forever. As a Major Power, China has to develop its own complete Tech Ecosystem in order for its Tech Industry to grow and thrive in the future.

These American Sanctions are probably a gift to China as it will force the Chinese to start developing their own indigeneous Tech Industry with its own IP.

China can provide the World with an alternative to the mainly American Social Media, Internet Services, Phone OS, Conputers, Chips etc. Huawei can become more like Apple in the area of Smartphones. etc. Maybe major Chinese Phone manfacturers can jointly develop a Open Source Mobile OS.

Yes......the new Tech battleground will be in emerging economies as China and the US compete to provide their own Tech and services.

tamsen_ikard said:

As long as Trump and his former tea party member subordinates rule the roost, aka Pompeo, Josh Hawley and so on, No US action is impossible. They will go to any length to stop China's tech rise. Samsung is a korean firm, a US client-state. If US really squeezed the Korean govt, would they not give in? Of course they will. But if they did not, which impossible currently, US can easily squeeze Samsung by threatening to put it on the entity list or threatening US financial sanctions or threatening to bar it from the US market.

China simply cannot rely on American vassal states anymore. This means no Europeans, Koreans, Japanese, Taiwanese or Singaporean company is reliable. Guess what, these countries completely control the Chip industry.

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Yeah but these vassal states depends on the Chinese market for growth. All those EU, Koreans, Japanese, Taiwanese or Singaporean combine population is still 3x smaller than China alone. They need continuing business and trade with China in order to keep their tech companies alive, otherwise they would be hurt by US China hawks goons. Can they all afford to lose or sacrifice their tech economy for the next decades just to appease their US masters when the inevitable China rise?

tamsen_ikard said:

As long as Trump and his former tea party member subordinates rule the roost, aka Pompeo, Josh Hawley and so on, No US action is impossible. They will go to any length to stop China's tech rise. Samsung is a korean firm, a US client-state. If US really squeezed the Korean govt, would they not give in? Of course they will. But if they did not, which impossible currently, US can easily squeeze Samsung by threatening to put it on the entity list or threatening US financial sanctions or threatening to bar it from the US market.

China simply cannot rely on American vassal states anymore. This means no Europeans, Koreans, Japanese, Taiwanese or Singaporean company is reliable. Guess what, these countries completely control the Chip industry.

China will have to start from scratch on this. A Chinese architecture or an open source one. Chinese lithography machine and all the other tools. They need to develop a new tech eco-system of hardware and software. A Chinese phone OS and Chinese internet services like Gmail/Google Maps.

Ofcourse they will not be able to do this overnight and possibly not in 30-40 years. So, they are trying to delay the inevitable western cutoff as long as possible to get as much time/profit/know-how as they can. But, this is only temporary. China will have to prepare for a complete tech blockade from US vassals. Does that mean China will not trade with them? No they will. But in low tech stuff like washing machine or car parts and oil.

China will have to develop its own tech system of everything and they will have to rely on non-western markets such as Africa/Latin America/Middle-East/ASEAN and its own vast market. Is it enough? It is, because these countries are the emerging markets and they are growing much faster than the rich western world. These countries have more population than the western vassal states. You cannot become a superpower while relying on your rival's courtesy. the rest if the world will be the battleground between two tech ecosystems. China was able to grow for many years without western attack. But that time is over. Its time for China to grow up and become truly independent.

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I agree with your overall sentiment, but just a point of contention, no way it will take 30-40 years, even if from scratch...
A complete grounds up tech eco-system can more or less happen in 10 years if China sets it as its "before the end of this decade" sort of project...

Not sure how legit this WIRED story is, could be just like the Bloomberg Supermicro fake news... but China would be crazy not to use all means available to it to catch up...

via 52051 they just hire a newly minted PHd in opto electronic for 3 million yuan talking about talent hunt
What does not kill you only make you strong remember this adage. Actually, what trump did is silver lining in the cloud. It awakens China from their rose color glass

production, EDA design software and IC design business, aiming at building every silicon producing system, like EUV lithography machines, light source, IC-design software device and such.

And China's state funds like Fund-01 and Fund-02 etc, are plan to invest hundreds of billions money to support Huawei's project.

With the management of Huawei, I expected it will destroy Intel and AMD and all the minor US players within 10 years, like they slaughtered many US corporations in communication business.

So in a few years we will see a Huawei empire that itself can produce from Desktop/mobile/smart device OS to communication devices to memory chip/storage chips/FPGA/CPUs and GPUs to AI chips, and all connected by Huawei's superior 5G or even 6G tech, and made by Huawei's silicon process.

In a matter of years, Huawei will be the combination of Cisco, Microsoft, google intel and nvidia, if not more, and Huawei can access to almost infinite financial source and talent pool in China, it is shame that Huawei don't offer stocks for investors to buy, otherwise it would have had one hell of a market capital

BMEWS said:

I agree with your overall sentiment, but just a point of contention, no way it will take 30-40 years, even if from scratch...
A complete grounds up tech eco-system can more or less happen in 10 years if China sets it as its "before the end of this decade" sort of project...

Not sure how legit this WIRED story is, could be just like the Bloomberg Supermicro fake news... but China would be crazy not to use all means available to it to catch up...

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I don't think China is still serious about "let's make a new eco-system" project. The Chinese elites fundamentally still believe they will be accepted by the west if they somehow modify their behavior, give up on core issues (many willing to give up Taiwan/Hong Kong and so forth). Many believe in a so called "rule based world order" even within the party leadership.

So, you can say they drank the cool-aid of the western globalist/universal values theory. They still hope whatever Trump is doing is not serious/ somehow Trump will stop escalation/ US public will be pragmatic. So, in a sense, they think American society and national psyche are similar to theirs, which is not true.

Just because China and Chinese people are extremely pragmatic and focused on money making, doesn't mean America and the west will be the same.

When Chinese people look at tech eco-system, they think about efficiency. They look at American tech eco-system and think if I use it I will save money, why go the extra effort?

Even during the height of anti-China feeling in the US, many Chinese companies are still trying to do a US IPO. Many Chinese companies still anounce that they will launch a new product in the US such as a Chinese car or a phone. Again, anyone who understands the American mood right now would never do such things. But the Chinese do anyway, because they are still hoping that Americans will focus on money making over preserving their dominance.

If China was really thinking in realist terms, they would never allow Chinese companies to go for global expansion while using Google Playstore/Gmail/Google eco-system. Even if it was painful, they would focus on making their own eco-system. But they never thought like, they thought about maximum efficiency and Google/US chip tech provided that.

Even now after all the sanctions and bans, why is China not dictating that if a US company does not sell to Huawei, it cannot sell to any other Chinese company. How about a different policy such as, all Chinese companies selling phones or laptops must have Chinese developed OS and services.
Or how about a pressuring all the Chinese phone makers to work together to come with a single app store and a single email and map and phone OS? Nope. Everyone is trying to do their own thing and failing.

That's why I am saying it will take 30-40 years. China will never commit to a strong self-reliance policy. They will do it bit by bit. It will be american bans that will force them to change and those bans will come on slowly.

These companies doing the ipo in the US must be crazy. The US has made it clear that they don't welcome Chinese listings. These companies will be better served by listing in Hong Kong or Shanghai instead, where politics and economy are way more stable.

Peter2018 said:

These companies doing the ipo in the US must be crazy. The US has made it clear that they don't welcome Chinese listings. These companies will be better served by listing in Hong Kong or Shanghai instead, where politics and economy are way more stable.

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i think doing ipo in the US will mean any actions by the US government on these companies will also hurt American shareholders which might make the government rethink their decisions