News on China's scientific and technological development.

Red Moon

Junior Member
TSMC Arizona deal is a big loser for TSMC. I expect it will go the way of the Foxconn Wisconsin deal --- nowhere.

The problem of the building a plant in the US is that you have to ship the chips to the appliance creators, which is in China anyway. So you just end up having the cost of the ocean transport to ship the chips to China for appliance assembly, then ship the appliance back to the US. The costs are always passed on to the US consumer.

Pentagon wants TSMC so they can make the chips there for the US military but the problem is the scale of the production, is that enough to offset the cost of the fab, or the fab costs are going to be passed to the chips.
This is the same problem the Soviet Union faced in developing microprocessors. Lack of a consumer market meant their scale was too small, so development, almost entirely for military purposes, was hugely expensive.

Ironically, the US has a large consumer market, but being at the top of the food chain means American corporations will not touch activities with such low return-on-investment as semiconductor fabrication, so that even Intel has fallen behind. This is the problem with American manufacturing in general, yet after four years of screaming and "consciousness raising" over the problem, instead of fixing things, the US is demanding that TSMC, an asian corporation, accept its low position on the r-o-i totem pole, and even lower it, in order to defend American supremacy.

On the other hand, the US still has advantages which allow it to act in this way: it supplies or controls much of the equipment for IC fabrication, and it also controls TSMC's biggest customers outside of Huawei: Qualcomm, Nvidia, AMD, Apple, among others.
 

localizer

Colonel
Registered Member
This is the same problem the Soviet Union faced in developing microprocessors. Lack of a consumer market meant their scale was too small, so development, almost entirely for military purposes, was hugely expensive.

Ironically, the US has a large consumer market, but being at the top of the food chain means American corporations will not touch activities with such low return-on-investment as semiconductor fabrication, so that even Intel has fallen behind. This is the problem with American manufacturing in general, yet after four years of screaming and "consciousness raising" over the problem, instead of fixing things, the US is demanding that TSMC, an asian corporation, accept its low position on the r-o-i totem pole, and even lower it, in order to defend American supremacy.

On the other hand, the US still has advantages which allow it to act in this way: it supplies or controls much of the equipment for IC fabrication, and it also controls TSMC's biggest customers outside of Huawei: Qualcomm, Nvidia, AMD, Apple, among others.




US fell behind Japan and forced Japan to give them IP.

US then falls behind TSMC and now is trying to do the same.

US won't be able to do the same with China. It should be in TSMC's interest to become officially a Chinese company.
 

Petrolicious88

Senior Member
Registered Member
US fell behind Japan and forced Japan to give them IP.

US then falls behind TSMC and now is trying to do the same.

US won't be able to do the same with China. It should be in TSMC's interest to become officially a Chinese company.
Taiwan is never going to allow TSMC to become a Chinese company. Lol. ThTs the crown jewel of Taiwanese manufacturing. Also China doesn’t have the best relationship with Taiwan these days
 

Skywatcher

Captain
This is the same problem the Soviet Union faced in developing microprocessors. Lack of a consumer market meant their scale was too small, so development, almost entirely for military purposes, was hugely expensive.

Ironically, the US has a large consumer market, but being at the top of the food chain means American corporations will not touch activities with such low return-on-investment as semiconductor fabrication, so that even Intel has fallen behind. This is the problem with American manufacturing in general, yet after four years of screaming and "consciousness raising" over the problem, instead of fixing things, the US is demanding that TSMC, an asian corporation, accept its low position on the r-o-i totem pole, and even lower it, in order to defend American supremacy.

On the other hand, the US still has advantages which allow it to act in this way: it supplies or controls much of the equipment for IC fabrication, and it also controls TSMC's biggest customers outside of Huawei: Qualcomm, Nvidia, AMD, Apple, among others.
By the time TSMC Arizona is built, its 5nm technology will be five years behind the cutting edge. Remember how when Nanjing TSMC opened in around 2018, its 16nm was cutting edge for 2014, but not 2018.
 

Tyler

Captain
Registered Member
It looks like
This is the same problem the Soviet Union faced in developing microprocessors. Lack of a consumer market meant their scale was too small, so development, almost entirely for military purposes, was hugely expensive.

Ironically, the US has a large consumer market, but being at the top of the food chain means American corporations will not touch activities with such low return-on-investment as semiconductor fabrication, so that even Intel has fallen behind. This is the problem with American manufacturing in general, yet after four years of screaming and "consciousness raising" over the problem, instead of fixing things, the US is demanding that TSMC, an asian corporation, accept its low position on the r-o-i totem pole, and even lower it, in order to defend American supremacy.

On the other hand, the US still has advantages which allow it to act in this way: it supplies or controls much of the equipment for IC fabrication, and it also controls TSMC's biggest customers outside of Huawei: Qualcomm, Nvidia, AMD, Apple, among others.
It looks like Chinese IC equipment will disrupt the landscape in the future. Even Taiwan will benefit from this disruption from having more choices of their equipment.
 

ansy1968

Brigadier
Registered Member
Will anybody want to bet if TSMC can lobby the US to extend the grace period. Its so embarrassing(awkward) for a Taiwanese company to beg (request) from the US on how to run their business. :mad:


from cnTechPost

TSMC wants to continue supplying Huawei after grace period, report says
2020-07-12 19:07:30 GMT+8 | cnTechPost
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TSMC wants to continue supplying Huawei after grace period, report says-cnTechPost

TSMC has made submissions to the U.S. in an effort to continue supplying Huawei after the grace period, according to
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The U.S. Department of Commerce's Huawei ban announced in May requires any company that supplies semiconductor products containing U.S. technology to Huawei must first obtain an export license.

The U.S. Department of Commerce has provided a 120-day grace period, with 60 days for the U.S. government to gather input before the grace period ends. Companies have until July 14 to submit comments, and after July 14 they can apply for a license from the U.S. government.
TSMC Chairman Mark Liu had previously said several times at shareholder meetings that he would work to get shipments to Huawei and TSMC continues to monitor the purpose of the U.S. ban and the extent to which it is enforced.
Huawei accounts for nearly 15 percent of TSMC's revenue and is one of the most important customers for its advanced processes, second only to Apple.


Mark Liu said if TSMC is unable to take Huawei's orders, there are many clients who want to fill the vacancies but still don't want that to happen.
 

Xizor

Captain
Registered Member
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According to the draft RFP, the agency wants a contractor to design and build eight Wide Field of View, or WFoV, satellites with infrared sensors capable of demonstrating an initial hypersonic weapon-tracking capability.

Mods: Delete this post as it was intended for another thread.
 

ansy1968

Brigadier
Registered Member
ASML is probably dreading the loss of its EUV lithography international monopoly by the late 2020s (unless SMEE for some reason can't/won't sell EUV machines).
Hi Skywatcher

Is there any new customer for ASML aside from TSMC and Samsung?I think both had already bought the equipment and didnt need additional order , while Intel is uncertain until they develop their 5nm tech.
 
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