News on China's scientific and technological development.

Quickie

Colonel
My first reaction was joy. My second reaction was confusion. Since this a clearly a military project, to create hacking/jamming-immune radar/satellite communications, why would they share this info? This is not stuff that foreign satellites could discover unlike the solar drone. So why? Best 3 reasons I could come up with:

1.They couldn't really do it. They found a critical flaw in quantum communications and are announcing this as both a bluff and an effort to waste foreign military assets on investing in a dead end.
2. They can do much much more now and are way beyond this. Revealing this is like revealing the specs of J-7.
3. An allied spy has uncovered this information and the Chinese later discovered his deed. It is assumed that China's major rivals already know so they might as well make it public information to keep their citizens in the loop too.

The project was open information right from the get-go. I recall watching a video of a seminar on the subject not too long ago. The speaker (from some kind of U.S. defense related institute ) talk about the project as if the information is freely available.

China can be seen to be quite open in a number fields that otherwise also have military relevance, like for example quantum computer/supercomputers.
 

manqiangrexue

Brigadier
China can be seen to be quite open in a number fields that otherwise also have military relevance, like for example quantum computer/supercomputers.
Well we don't really know that. Despite vying for the honor of world's number 1, I would hope that ZhongNanHai has restricted disclosure of any true maximum specs as they are relevant to military application. In other words, what we know as their best may not be their best, even though it is the best in the world. It would only be wise.
 

Shaolian

Junior Member
Registered Member
My first reaction was joy. My second reaction was confusion. Since this a clearly a military project, to create hacking/jamming-immune radar/satellite communications, why would they share this info? This is not stuff that foreign satellites could discover unlike the solar drone. So why? Best 3 reasons I could come up with:

1.They couldn't really do it. They found a critical flaw in quantum communications and are announcing this as both a bluff and an effort to waste foreign military assets on investing in a dead end.
2. They can do much much more now and are way beyond this. Revealing this is like revealing the specs of J-7.
3. An allied spy has uncovered this information and the Chinese later discovered his deed. It is assumed that China's major rivals already know so they might as well make it public information to keep their citizens in the loop too.

Yeah, I was having this strange feeling when reading that article… by announcing it in such a way, is like putting a price on the head of each of the researcher, dead or alive.

Hopefully, it's option "2".
 

taxiya

Brigadier
Registered Member
Then hopefully the information disclosed is the extent of their research for civilian use and their military research is superior or somehow different. China should never sell its national security for money; if commercial information can be sued by foreign intelligence, then it should not be commercial, for any price.

Some extra thought:

Pan's study in University of Vienna and Mr. Zeilinger's research are theoretical, and openly discussed in international conference and symposium, there is no secret in those papers nor commercial values, it is like Eistein's theory of relativity.

What is valuable and always the most challenging thing is the engineering implementation that create instruments that can make the theories useful. The satellite and its ground stations that Pan's team has made makes the lead of China over others. The capability of the laser, optical processing and satellite building of China is the lead and a highly guarded secret that will not be shared with anyone, including Mr. Zeilinger who IMO is not interested in those details anyway as a theorist. Mr. Zeilinger would be very happy to see the work of him and Pan proven to be correct through these experiments.
 

camelbird

New Member
Registered Member
There seems to be a lot of confusion and misunderstanding surrounding this news, as evidenced by statements such as: "Distance has no meaning to the science since theoretically it is able to send an message regardless of distance but unfortunately it is still not ready for practical use." Both parts of that statement are completely incorrect.

Part of the issue is the press is doing a very poor job of conveying the correct information. This is understandable as it involves two subjects most people are not familiar with, classical cryptography and quantum theory. While it's not possible to go into full details in a comment, here's a few points.

First, entanglement cannot be used by itself to directly send information across arbitrary distances. This is basically what the No Communication Theorem states. See the Wikipedia article for more details.

This latest news is about Quantum Key Distribution. Again, the Wikipedia article on this is fairly complete and self-contained. It includes information about this latest development. In short, this is a way of distributing keys where classical attacks are detectable (note emphasis on classical attacks). After key distribution, messages are sent via classical means using the shared (and, assuming everything has worked as intended, uncompromised) secret key.

And yes, the challenge is to make sure all the components along the chain works, and that key distribution can occur over large distances. This is not easy. Doing via a satellite is, as far as we know, new, and might prove to be the better way.

Quantum Key Distribution is not new. It was first proposed decades ago. Both experimental and commercial systems exist, and some have been in operation for at least a decade.
 

Hendrik_2000

Lieutenant General
Well my understanding this is only proof of concept to see if the entanglement can be carried over long distance
The actual communication is not yet built But they validate the main principle and they built the equipment that can send and receive this entangled photon? it is step forward
Here is the video

NOVA
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By entangling particles on a satellite and shooting them down to Earth, China may have just set the tone for a global “quantum space race.”

In a
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, Jian-Wei Pan, a physicist at the University of Science and Technology of China in Shanghai, and his colleagues report that they were able to entangle photons aboard a satellite 300 miles above Earth and then beam those particles to three ground stations across China—each separated by more than 700 miles.

It’s an unprecedented feat. Not only were the particles entangled in space (scientists have never done this before), but they retained their bizarre connection even after they’d been separated by a distance 10 times the previous record for what’s called “quantum teleportation.”

quantum-entanglement_2048x1152.jpg

The Milky Way galaxy
Entanglement still boggles physicists’ minds to this day, even though our understanding of it has its origins in the renaissance of early 20th-century quantum theory research. According to quantum mechanics, particles can be in different “states” at once, and when they’re observed, those superimposed states collapse into just one. When particles are “entangled,” their states are linked together across space—when the one particle is measured, the other particle’s properties become frozen as well. Einstein wasn’t a fan of this idea because it suggested that communication between particles could travel instantaneously—i.e., faster than the speed of light.

Though it sounds like a pointless exercise to make “twin” particles and send them careening away from each other, scientists are doing just that in order to pioneer what’s called “quantum communication,” an ultra-private way of sending messages. Because observation of one entangled particle immediately affects its partner, information sent via quantum methods can’t be hacked without it being very obvious to the other party involved.

Here’s Sarah Kaplan, reporting for The Washington Post:

But until Pan and his colleagues started their experiments in space, quantum communication faced a serious limitation. Entangled photons don’t need wires or cables to link them, but on Earth it is necessary to use a fiber optic cable to transmit one of the particles to its desired location. But fibers absorb light as the photon travels through, so the quantum connection weakens with every mile the particle is transmitted. The
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for what’s known as
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, or sending information via entangled particles, was about 140 kilometers, or 86 miles.

But no light gets absorbed in space, because there’s nothing to do the absorbing. Space is empty. This means that entangled particles can be transmitted long distances across the vacuum and not lose information. Recognizing this, Pan proposed that entangled particles sent through space could vastly extend the distance across which entangled particles communicate.

Tests on the ground confirmed that the particles sent from the Micius satellite were indeed still entangled. Eventually, Pan wants to use the satellite for more complicated quantum communication; others working on this area of research hope that eventually, a “quantum internet” could allow for super-fast and super-secure communication around the world.
 

SamuraiBlue

Captain
What?! Cryogenic? Why? Quantum entanglement is generated using crystals to split photons. No need to lower the temp... Major limitations lie with detection, I think...
Try studying the fundamentals first.

Sustained Quantum Coherence and Entanglement in the Avian Compass

In artificial systems, quantum superposition and entanglement typically decay rapidly unless cryogenic temperatures are used.

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Here are some other reports stating the precondition in obtaining quantum entanglement.
In optomechanical systems a cavity mode can be strongly coupled to a high-quality mechanical oscillator via radiation pressure or dipole gradient forces. Quantum effects are starting to play an increasingly
important role: In the microwave regime ground-state cooling via laser-cooling techniques
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Solid-state quan-tum memories for photons can be implemented with cryogenically cooled crystals doped with rare-earth-metal(RE) ions, which have impressive coherence proper-ties at temperatures below 4 K.
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manqiangrexue

Brigadier
Try studying the fundamentals first.



Here are some other reports stating the precondition in obtaining quantum entanglement.

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So from what I see, in 2011, the pinnacle of understanding was that artificially, cryogenic temperatures were used to preserve (not necessarily achieve) quantum entanglement. However, it was noted that it is definitely possible without cryogenic temperatures because birds can do it without. Then in 2017, Pan's team registered a photon pair that was still entangled with 1,203km between them. He mentioned nothing about temperature but as far as I know, there's no way to bring 1,203km of free space down to 4 degrees K.

So what desperate angle were you trying to crawl up in making this achievement look like it's no-big-deal-anyone-can-do-it-but-we-didn't-cus-we're-too-smart-to-waste-our-time?
 

SamuraiBlue

Captain
So from what I see, in 2011, the pinnacle of understanding was that artificially, cryogenic temperatures were used to preserve (not necessarily achieve) quantum entanglement. However, it was noted that it is definitely possible without cryogenic temperatures because birds can do it without. Then in 2017, Pan's team registered a photon pair that was still entangled with 1,203km between them. He mentioned nothing about temperature but as far as I know, there's no way to bring 1,203km of free space down to 4 degrees K.

So what desperate angle were you trying to crawl up in making this achievement look like it's no big deal?
You also require to study the basics.
Quantum entanglement is maintained when there is no/little noise to violate the entanglement phase. Heat is that noise. After gaining entanglement you require to transport one of the pairs so you need to preserve that state.
Concerning the birds which MAY possess abilities has not been proven (or disproved).
As for Pan's team they may have not mentioned it is because it is a given precondition of the test. I really do not know why.
I studied about this phenomenon during my school days and have been following the subject loosely reading related articles about it.
 

manqiangrexue

Brigadier
You also require to study the basics.
Quantum entanglement is maintained when there is no/little noise to violate the entanglement phase. Heat is that noise. After gaining entanglement you require to transport one of the pairs so you need to preserve that state.
Concerning the birds which MAY possess abilities has not been proven (or disproved).
As for Pan's team they may have not mentioned it is because it is a given precondition of the test. I really do not know why.
I studied about this phenomenon during my school days and have been following the subject loosely reading related articles about it.
I did not ask you to explain why cryogenic temperature is required. At this point, Pan's team factually achieved this, and the distance is 1,203km. How do you achieve cryogenic temperatures throughout that distance? If it cannot be done, then it means that they have bypassed that requirement. Regardless, what is your point in mentioning that cryogenic temperatures may or may not be necessary to preserve quantum entanglement? Just to demonstrate that you know that?

Next time you lecture other people on basics, remember that you are the one who has demonstrated that you can barely read.
 
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