News on China's scientific and technological development.

weig2000

Captain
The current goal is for the 1st regional high speed maglev in China to be completed sometime after 2026, and most likely extended to link the large delta regions of Shanghai, Guangzhou and Beijing afterwards. If this actually happens, I am curious what this will do to China's airline business, let alone the C919 and CR929. The C919 might just evolve into a mostly export item while the CR929 becomes China's mainline carrier.

Regional airlines are affected most, but C919 and C929 should be fine. C919 will still be the mainstay of Chinese domestic aviation, with far larger demand than C929, something like thousands vs. hundreds when all is said and done. C919 can provide the frequency and has range between 4,100km-5,600km to connect almost any two cities within China, as well as Chinese cities and neighboring countries. The primary markets for both C919 and C929 will still be domestic airlines, particularly the latter.

The Chinese aviation market is large and still growing, and there should be enough demands for both high-speed rail and air flights. They key is to design the integrated network and services among different modes of transport, providing convenience and comfort for passengers and travelers. The mentality needs to be changed from just building to increasingly servicing. These will further stimulate demands as the country becomes more affluent.
 

taxiya

Brigadier
Registered Member
A Beijing-Hong Kong line + Shanghai-Beijing line + Shanghai-Wuhan line would connect almost all the largest cities

Still, it will depend on whether the researchers manage to lower the costs of maglev using high temperature superconductors and other stuff. Japan's 200+ km line costs an insane $64 billion
China's high-speed maglev uses liquid nitrogen for their superconductors. Japan uses liquid helium, which explains the large discrepancy between the much lower cost of the China high-speed maglev and Japan's.

China has two MEGLAV programs aiming at above 600 kmh. The other (EMS) is non superconductive of the same principal as the running line in Shanghai at 400kmh top. This is much cheaper to build, but cost more in operation.

EMS has had a train carriage run on a test track in Shanghai. Engineering prototype "工程样机" should have been finished by the end of 2020.
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krautmeister

Junior Member
Registered Member
China has two MEGLAV programs aiming at above 600 kmh. The other (EMS) is non superconductive of the same principal as the running line in Shanghai at 400kmh top. This is much cheaper to build, but cost more in operation.

EMS has had a train carriage run on a test track in Shanghai. Engineering prototype "工程样机" should have been finished by the end of 2020.
It seems China is really going all out on maglev. Latest news was that there is a heavy push for expanding urban transit using low-medium speed HTS maglevs in smaller cities. Such low-medium speed maglevs allow a much tighter turn radius than standard rail and they have faster acceleration/deceleration with higher torque for climbing steep gradients. Great for mountainous terrain like Chongqing.

I haven't heard of the HTS high speed maglev but now that I know there are 2 types, I'm wondering if there is going to be some competition or if both systems will be implemented. It's absolutely crazy how fast China became this transportation juggernaut. Only 25 years ago, China's still had a bunch of steam locomotives and they were in the middle of speed up campaigns for their trains, some of which were running slower than 40km an hour. Nuts!
 

Tyler

Captain
Registered Member
It seems China is really going all out on maglev. Latest news was that there is a heavy push for expanding urban transit using low-medium speed HTS maglevs in smaller cities. Such low-medium speed maglevs allow a much tighter turn radius than standard rail and they have faster acceleration/deceleration with higher torque for climbing steep gradients. Great for mountainous terrain like Chongqing.

I haven't heard of the HTS high speed maglev but now that I know there are 2 types, I'm wondering if there is going to be some competition or if both systems will be implemented. It's absolutely crazy how fast China became this transportation juggernaut. Only 25 years ago, China's still had a bunch of steam locomotives and they were in the middle of speed up campaigns for their trains, some of which were running slower than 40km an hour. Nuts!
The maglev line from Shanghai's Pudong airport still has not expanded to the other Shanghai airport as planned. Now they are talking about much longer maglev lines which may not make money.

Are they going to build some tesla hyperloop in China as well?
 

krautmeister

Junior Member
Registered Member
The maglev line from Shanghai's Pudong airport still has not expanded to the other Shanghai airport as planned. Now they are talking about much longer maglev lines which may not make money.

Are they going to build some tesla hyperloop in China as well?
China is building it's own version of a vacuum tube maglev. It's way further along than Tesla Hyperloop, which is still in studies. Imo, this is an accident waiting to happen.

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KYli

Brigadier
The maglev line from Shanghai's Pudong airport still has not expanded to the other Shanghai airport as planned. Now they are talking about much longer maglev lines which may not make money.

Are they going to build some tesla hyperloop in China as well?
The maglev line in Shangahai is just an experiment. Beside, there is a strong opposition from Shanghai locals against the expansion. However, the technology has been much more matured now. The plan is to make intercity transit under one hour so people living in many rural region in Guangdong can travel to work in Shenzhen within an hour.
 

Tyler

Captain
Registered Member
The maglev line in Shangahai is just an experiment. Beside, there is a strong opposition from Shanghai locals against the expansion. However, the technology has been much more matured now. The plan is to make intercity transit under one hour so people living in many rural region in Guangdong can travel to work in Shenzhen within an hour.
Will there be strong opposition for building maglev all over the country? How about the current 36000km network of highspeed railway? Is it going to be wasted?
 

KYli

Brigadier
Will there be strong opposition for building maglev all over the country? How about the current 36000km network of highspeed railway? Is it going to be wasted?
Better management of environmental and noise pollution should alleviate opposition. As for highspeed railway, it isn't going to be wasted. They plan to build maglev in places that require further upgrade in infrastructure such as Guangdong or Shanghai/Zhejiang/Beijing that existing highspeed railway already running at near full capacity. Beside the initial focus is for intercity transit.
 

krautmeister

Junior Member
Registered Member
The maglev line in Shangahai is just an experiment. Beside, there is a strong opposition from Shanghai locals against the expansion. However, the technology has been much more matured now. The plan is to make intercity transit under one hour so people living in many rural region in Guangdong can travel to work in Shenzhen within an hour.
This brings back memories. :) The Shanghai airport maglev was originally slated to run from the Shanghai airport, through Shanghai, all the way to Suzhou. At that time, there was a 3 way competition for which technology would be used to link China in it's original 4x4 North-South / East-West high-speed transport corridor plan, now expanded into the 8x8 plan.
  1. German TransRapid maglev tech
  2. International rail tech transfer
    • Kawasaki
    • Siemens
    • Alstom
    • Bombardier
  3. domestic high speed rail tech
    • China Star (reached 321 km/h in 2002)

Everybody now knows that China developed its CRH train models with domestic technology and tech transfer that together became China's high speed trains. Maglev was quickly eliminated as a nationwide candidate so the decision was going to be rail but there was a big debate on whether to pay the multi-billion tech transfer costs or self develop the rapidly progressing fully domestic China Star high speed train. There was a big bidding war on the Beijing-Shanghai high speed rail link that ultimately was won by the international tech transfer consortium. People don't realize that this almost didn't happen. The China Star project was in the running, but the planners were taking the conservative approach and wanted fully developed systems because this would be the basis upon which China's entire future high speed rail plan rested. In hindsight, the China Star high speed train project would have succeeded, but the extra years delay for development would have affected China's economic development that the high-speed rail network fueled.
 

AndrewS

Brigadier
Registered Member
This brings back memories. :) The Shanghai airport maglev was originally slated to run from the Shanghai airport, through Shanghai, all the way to Suzhou. At that time, there was a 3 way competition for which technology would be used to link China in it's original 4x4 North-South / East-West high-speed transport corridor plan, now expanded into the 8x8 plan.
  1. German TransRapid maglev tech
  2. International rail tech transfer
    • Kawasaki
    • Siemens
    • Alstom
    • Bombardier
  3. domestic high speed rail tech
    • China Star (reached 321 km/h in 2002)

Everybody now knows that China developed its CRH train models with domestic technology and tech transfer that together became China's high speed trains. Maglev was quickly eliminated as a nationwide candidate so the decision was going to be rail but there was a big debate on whether to pay the multi-billion tech transfer costs or self develop the rapidly progressing fully domestic China Star high speed train. There was a big bidding war on the Beijing-Shanghai high speed rail link that ultimately was won by the international tech transfer consortium. People don't realize that this almost didn't happen. The China Star project was in the running, but the planners were taking the conservative approach and wanted fully developed systems because this would be the basis upon which China's entire future high speed rail plan rested. In hindsight, the China Star high speed train project would have succeeded, but the extra years delay for development would have affected China's economic development that the high-speed rail network fueled.

Remember back to 2008.

The Beijing Olympic Games had just finished and the Great Financial Crisis had spread to China, with millions of migrant workers returning to their villages.

In the aftermath, high-speed railway construction was fast-tracked and needed proven technology.
 
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