News on China's scientific and technological development.


krautmeister

Junior Member
Registered Member
What Google did was to try and take all the 'useful' stuff out of AOSP and put it in a google mobile services (GMS) layer which they control and which they bake into their apps so you can't use google maps, mail etc on vanilla ASOP without google services, since most useful apps need to make calls to the services GMS provides, this essentially neuters AOSP that's the bit Google has withdrawn from Huawei, since they can't actually control what happens with AOSP. Any simple android app that doesn't interact with location, payment etc will work since it doesn't rely on GMS, anything 'useful' falls flat on its face!

n China not having GMS is no great shakes since no one uses google's apps any way but in the big wide world its more of an issue, so Huawei created Huawei Mobile Services {HMS} a very close facsimile to GMS to allow developers who want to, to recompile their apps with the minimum amount of rework. By substituting GMS with HMS on top of the harmonyOS microkernel you have a complete Android replacement
From initial reports, Harmony OS is going to support a whole slew of ARM SoCs from HiSilicon, Qualcomm and MediaTek as well as RISC-V chips. So, I expect a bunch of ROMs to appear for many such phones. Whether any of those ROMs, besides for HiSilicon, will be supported or not is still up for speculation but it will definitely be possible to get Harmony OS installed on those phones if anybody wants to do it. It's disappointing that no other phone makers within China have decided to pre-install Harmony OS on any of their phones, despite the obvious danger they face. To date, only Meizu has publicly announced Harmony OS support but not for their phones. This kind of cautious approach is what the sanctions depend on happening. A good example is Xiaomi, who is now so scared of being sanctioned again that they are probably more tentative now to support an openly anti-sanction move like Harmony OS because they just might be put back on the entity list. So, I see the post installation of Harmony OS on ROM supported phones to be the backdoor way to reaching the critical mass Harmony OS needs to actually challenge Android's dominance within China. If that point could be reached, then the L2 version of Harmony OS would probably become the new defacto version installed within China. Only then could I see Harmony OS becoming a viable alternative outside China because at that point, at least a million programmers would then be programming for Harmony OS and those apps, many of which would be multilingual, would start building a vast ecosystem.
 

paullee

New Member
Registered Member
From initial reports, Harmony OS is going to support a whole slew of ARM SoCs from HiSilicon, Qualcomm and MediaTek as well as RISC-V chips. So, I expect a bunch of ROMs to appear for many such phones. Whether any of those ROMs, besides for HiSilicon, will be supported or not is still up for speculation but it will definitely be possible to get Harmony OS installed on those phones if anybody wants to do it. It's disappointing that no other phone makers within China have decided to pre-install Harmony OS on any of their phones, despite the obvious danger they face. To date, only Meizu has publicly announced Harmony OS support but not for their phones. This kind of cautious approach is what the sanctions depend on happening. A good example is Xiaomi, who is now so scared of being sanctioned again that they are probably more tentative now to support an openly anti-sanction move like Harmony OS because they just might be put back on the entity list. So, I see the post installation of Harmony OS on ROM supported phones to be the backdoor way to reaching the critical mass Harmony OS needs to actually challenge Android's dominance within China. If that point could be reached, then the L2 version of Harmony OS would probably become the new defacto version installed within China. Only then could I see Harmony OS becoming a viable alternative outside China because at that point, at least a million programmers would then be programming for Harmony OS and those apps, many of which would be multilingual, would start building a vast ecosystem.

Xi just needs to step in and mandate this for inside China... Google is basically CIA

China cannot expect to be #1 Power by running the enemy OS, platform and ecosystems
 

voyager1

Captain
Registered Member
Xiaomi and BKK are spineless as ever.

If HarmonyOS wont even be able to take hold inside China then what about internationally...........

Only solution is Huawei having a patriotic marketing campaign inside China. Its doubtful however if CPC would approve this.

IMO Xiaomi and BKK should be required to submit their plans to the ministry on how they plan to break the OS "chokepoint". Its either develop their own OS quickly or switch to HarmonyOS (at the very least for China, and later for internationally)

If these 2 companies think they can sit it out while Huawei is struggling alone then they must be dreaming. The Gov will take care of it.

Or they will get the Alibaba and Jack Ma treatment for their treasonous behaviour
 
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krautmeister

Junior Member
Registered Member
Xiaomi and BKK are spineless as ever.

If HarmonyOS wont even be able to take hold inside China then what about internationally...........

Only solution is Huawei having a patriotic marketing campaign inside China. Its doubtful however if CPC would approve this.

IMO Xiaomi and BKK should be required to submit their plans to the ministry on how they plan to break the OS "chokepoint". Its either develop their own OS quickly or switch to HarmonyOS (at the very least for China, and later for internationally)
These companies would be risking their cash cows on an unproven OS. On top of that, they are the primary beneficiaries of Huawei's lost market share from smartphones. So, it's very clear why they wouldn't adopt Harmony OS, "at least right now". I'm very sure they are considering it in one form or another because they need a back up plan given the US escalating threats. My feeling is they are planning a way to quickly roll it out in the event Google is sanctioned from them. Then they could have it pushed to all their phones as an "update".

Remember when Harmony OS was first unveiled at the Huawei World Developer conference in 2019? It was explicitly mentioned that Xiaomi, Oppo, Vivo, Meizu and Lenovo were cooperating on Harmony OS development. I am confident that all of them are planning on releasing China localized ROMs for their China sold phones, and "IF" that is successful, to follow with global ROMs for various languages while they sell pre-installed Harmony OS phones within China.


Or they will get the Alibaba and Jack Ma treatment for their treasonous behaviour
Why do you call Jack Ma treasonous? The way I understand it, his AliPay venture had the potential to endanger China's financial system because it was promoting a dangerous form of leveraged financial arbitrage. He then later publicly criticized China's financial regulators as being an obsolete organization with a pawn shop mentality. This kind of disdain for financial regulation must have been seen as a threat to China's financial integrity given the size of Alibaba and the way they use China's traditional banking system to run their financial arbitrage lending business. It's not about treason, it's about financial risk with a wayward billionaire. The only thing that is treasonous about Jack Ma imo, is his ownership of SCMP and allowing the editorial department to promote news with the atypical Western anti-China bias. It's pretty obvious at SCMP but not AS obvious as with the more blatant CNN, BBC, FOX News, Reuters, AFP, DW, Al Jazeera, The Economist, Bloomberg, Forbes, New York Times, Washington Post, The Guardian, The Telegraph, Facebook, Youtube, Google search, Twitter, Wikipedia, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc....
 

Xsizor

Captain
Registered Member
These companies would be risking their cash cows on an unproven OS. On top of that, they are the primary beneficiaries of Huawei's lost market share from smartphones. So, it's very clear why they wouldn't adopt Harmony OS, "at least right now". I'm very sure they are considering it in one form or another because they need a back up plan given the US escalating threats. My feeling is they are planning a way to quickly roll it out in the event Google is sanctioned from them. Then they could have it pushed to all their phones as an "update".

Remember when Harmony OS was first unveiled at the Huawei World Developer conference in 2019? It was explicitly mentioned that Xiaomi, Oppo, Vivo, Meizu and Lenovo were cooperating on Harmony OS development. I am confident that all of them are planning on releasing China localized ROMs for their China sold phones, and "IF" that is successful, to follow with global ROMs for various languages while they sell pre-installed Harmony OS phones within China.



Why do you call Jack Ma treasonous? The way I understand it, his AliPay venture had the potential to endanger China's financial system because it was promoting a dangerous form of leveraged financial arbitrage. He then later publicly criticized China's financial regulators as being an obsolete organization with a pawn shop mentality. This kind of disdain for financial regulation must have been seen as a threat to China's financial integrity given the size of Alibaba and the way they use China's traditional banking system to run their financial arbitrage lending business. It's not about treason, it's about financial risk with a wayward billionaire. The only thing that is treasonous about Jack Ma imo, is his ownership of SCMP and allowing the editorial department to promote news with the atypical Western anti-China bias. It's pretty obvious at SCMP but not AS obvious as with the more blatant CNN, BBC, FOX News, Reuters, AFP, DW, Al Jazeera, The Economist, Bloomberg, Forbes, New York Times, Washington Post, The Guardian, The Telegraph, Facebook, Youtube, Google search, Twitter, Wikipedia, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc....
No subject expert but-

I don't think they can just port an OS over, especially with kernel based changes, over to other devices just as easily.

The hardware needs to talk with the software and that means the hardware has to be made compatible with Harmony OS. Other smartphone manufacturers are likely to not have their hardwares be certified for the OS. So forget backward compatibility.
 

voyager1

Captain
Registered Member
These companies would be risking their cash cows on an unproven OS. On top of that, they are the primary beneficiaries of Huawei's lost market share from smartphones. So, it's very clear why they wouldn't adopt Harmony OS, "at least right now"
You are viewing this from a commercial point of view which is ok in normal situations. However this matter has prover to be a serious matter of national security issue. If these companies dont want to do this then the gov will force them to do, either quickly roll out your own OS or adopt HarmonyOS

National security > Commercial reasons

Why do you call Jack Ma treasonous?
AliPay was threatening to crumble the entire Chinese economy the way it was going, the time when China is fighting off the US. If thats not treason I dont know what is. I dont know if that was his intention (probably not), but the potential catastrophic damage to China was all the same
Maybe another word is better to describe it, but if Alipay had destroyed the Chinese economy, the consequences would still be the same for Jack Ma, death penalty

Then instead of admitting his mistake he went to openly challenge and mock regulators in front of their faces.

SCMP is another obvious treasonous matter but paradoxically enough I think it fits China's plans. They are anti-China enough to gather Western-attention, but they also manage to sneak in some Chinese arguments from time to time.

IMO the biggest for me is that Jack Ma had become too much friendly with his western billionaire buddies and he had started to adopt some of their practises. This was extremely alarming which is why I am happy to see him put down for some time in order to reflect on his mistakes
 

paullee

New Member
Registered Member
These companies would be risking their cash cows on an unproven OS. On top of that, they are the primary beneficiaries of Huawei's lost market share from smartphones. So, it's very clear why they wouldn't adopt Harmony OS, "at least right now". I'm very sure they are considering it in one form or another because they need a back up plan given the US escalating threats. My feeling is they are planning a way to quickly roll it out in the event Google is sanctioned from them. Then they could have it pushed to all their phones as an "update".

Remember when Harmony OS was first unveiled at the Huawei World Developer conference in 2019? It was explicitly mentioned that Xiaomi, Oppo, Vivo, Meizu and Lenovo were cooperating on Harmony OS development. I am confident that all of them are planning on releasing China localized ROMs for their China sold phones, and "IF" that is successful, to follow with global ROMs for various languages while they sell pre-installed Harmony OS phones within China.



Why do you call Jack Ma treasonous? The way I understand it, his AliPay venture had the potential to endanger China's financial system because it was promoting a dangerous form of leveraged financial arbitrage. He then later publicly criticized China's financial regulators as being an obsolete organization with a pawn shop mentality. This kind of disdain for financial regulation must have been seen as a threat to China's financial integrity given the size of Alibaba and the way they use China's traditional banking system to run their financial arbitrage lending business. It's not about treason, it's about financial risk with a wayward billionaire. The only thing that is treasonous about Jack Ma imo, is his ownership of SCMP and allowing the editorial department to promote news with the atypical Western anti-China bias. It's pretty obvious at SCMP but not AS obvious as with the more blatant CNN, BBC, FOX News, Reuters, AFP, DW, Al Jazeera, The Economist, Bloomberg, Forbes, New York Times, Washington Post, The Guardian, The Telegraph, Facebook, Youtube, Google search, Twitter, Wikipedia, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc....

Treason is typically defined as aiding the enemy in time of war... but that definition is now outdated. We are basically already in the midst of a shadow WWIII where nation states are fighting each other under the banner of plausible denailability... Even Xi and Trump had both remarked to fighting COVID as "war like footing" and compared it to war effort... America has fired the opening salvos of its new Cold War 2.0 directed against China... so even if its not official hot kinetic war yet or they haven't declared it by the Congress, its for all intents and purposes already a multipronged and multispectrum war... Jack Ma sucking up to the West is a form of aiding and abetting the enemy since in this day and age the so-called Fifth Generational Warfare (propaganda) is at the highest layer of warfare and more effective than the stacks below it... its not just bullets and tanks anymore... its twitter, and facebook and Hollywood movies and all that sort of stuff that "hearts and minds" etc

Maybe Ma didn't commit Treason in the legal definition but he has committed Treason in spirit and intent
 

Quickie

Major
No subject expert but-

I don't think they can just port an OS over, especially with kernel based changes, over to other devices just as easily.

The hardware needs to talk with the software and that means the hardware has to be made compatible with Harmony OS. Other smartphone manufacturers are likely to not have their hardwares be certified for the OS. So forget backward compatibility.

I think it's possible especially if the devices have the same hardware architecture/ISA, although swapping the handset OS entirely through an online update is probably impossible.

Porting in an entirely different OS into either an old or new handset normally has to be done in the factory either via a direct link through some hardware electronic interfaces or replacing a memory chip with one that has already been preprogrammed with the new OS.
 

krautmeister

Junior Member
Registered Member
No subject expert but-

I don't think they can just port an OS over, especially with kernel based changes, over to other devices just as easily.

The hardware needs to talk with the software and that means the hardware has to be made compatible with Harmony OS. Other smartphone manufacturers are likely to not have their hardwares be certified for the OS. So forget backward compatibility.
I wasn't saying it would be an update like a typical Android update, that's why I put the word update in quotes as in an "update". I think in a situation where Google were sanctioned from them, these vendors would be forced to switch over to something like Harmony OS. The most obvious way would be to perform a full backup of the Android installations followed by a pushed update to one of the Harmony OS iterations containing Android AOSP + HMS (Huawei Mobile Services). Then the backed up Android installations could be automatically re-installed similar to how automated backups are restored after switching to new phones. Those apps needing Google services would of course no longer work, so hopefully by then alternative apps would be developed using HMS instead.
 

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