New Type98/99 MBT thread


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Cross Forum Posting
VT-4 outclassed T-90 in 7/10 categories.
VT-4 brings NCW (net-centric warfare capability) in a way that is unprecedented in South Asia and will be unmatchable by the Adversary. The MS that the Indians are purchasing has a pretty solid armour
T-90(also one of the contenders for this project) was trialed by PA, metallurgy was found to be the best amongst all three, but was found wanting in optronics and Battlefield management systems, ease of maintenance
Above are the excerpts of postings of Ark_Angel of PDF who till now proved right every time about Pakistan Army VT-4 acquisition program and as of now Pakistan Army is the only army who has tested all three Oplot-M, T-90MS and VT-4 tanks.
 

gelgoog

Senior Member
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The VT-4 and T-90MS are roughly similar on paper on several aspects.
There is too much classified data, especially on VT-4, for us to know for sure which tank is better.
Pakistan already has experience with Chinese tanks so I think that pushed them towards that option.
Also the T-90M was only recently delivered to the Russian Army.

There was probably a concern that India could try to block the sale as well.
Russia intends to upgrade all T-90 tanks to T-90M standard over the next decade.
So T-90MS should also be an option to upgrade the Indian T-90S tanks.
 

berserk

Junior Member
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Instead of insulting, you should state and justify why, how or in which areas you think that the russian tank is comparable or better than the chinese.
Superior protection level + better gun + better ammo, better firepower + FCS.
VT 4 protection level is same as around T 90S.
even ammo is not that great with 600mm DOP, slightly better than mango M and same as old svinets 2 round. T 90MS can fire upgraded svinet 1 with DOP around 740mm.
The VT-4 and T-90MS are roughly similar on paper on several aspects.
There is too much classified data, especially on VT-4, for us to know for sure which tank is better.
Pakistan already has experience with Chinese tanks so I think that pushed them towards that option.
Also the T-90M was only recently delivered to the Russian Army.

There was probably a concern that India could try to block the sale as well.
Russia intends to upgrade all T-90 tanks to T-90M standard over the next decade.
So T-90MS should also be an option to upgrade the Indian T-90S tanks.
T 90MS is different from T 90M Proryv 3 in russian forces.
 

Gloire_bb

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Superior protection level
Very possible(maybe even likely), but hard to prove in either direction. (front) Too many unknowns, so I would be careful here.
Side protection goes to t-90sm, as of now.
better gun + better ammo
For all intents and purposes - both guns are...distant cousins, and their difference in terms of firepower isn't that significant.

BTA-4 is known and available to customers. Array of available shells is in theory +/- same, with some advantage going to the Chinese (they have PELE). Both are limited by the same autoloader design.

But that's in theory. Indians are still buying Mango, btw, even now.
Doesn't sound like a firepower advantage. At least, not over VT-4.

At best they're functionally ~equal, but chinese one seemingly is significantly deeper networked.
 

berserk

Junior Member
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Do you have any sources to back up all of these assertions?
VT 4 manufacturer claim with ERA protection level is 700mm against a KE penetrator. Base armour is still between 600- 650mm.
i give extra 150- 200mm+ for turret with ERA ,so total of between 800+/- 50mm with ERA .
Lower than T 90S worst case scenario.
same as T 90S best case scenario. Frontal side armour of turrent is not that great.

BTA 4 APFSDS claimed DOP is 600mm.
View attachment 64674

Upgraded mango is around 560mm. DRDO mk 2 APFSDS for T 72 and T 90 have reached same. Indian army has already issued a RFI for a new round with DOP greater than 600mm up to 800mm.
Screenshot_2020-10-11-17-00-51-801_com.skydot.docxreader.docx.docxviewer.document.doc.office.v...png
Screenshot_2020-10-11-17-01-04-670_com.skydot.docxreader.docx.docxviewer.document.doc.office.v...png

Current T 90 with upgraded autoloader can fire svinets 2 with DOP of 600mm .
Credit @swiftfarts DFI.
IMG_20201011_202454 (1).jpg

T 90MS can fire rounds like svinets 1, 740mm and Svinets 2 but with higher DOP ( 660mm ) due to better gun.
credit swiftfart DFI.
main-qimg-852619332e7ad633cd8b4142c00abebf (1).jpeg
 

Mohsin77

Junior Member
Registered Member
VT 4 manufacturer claim with ERA protection level is 700mm against a KE penetrator. Base armour is still between 600- 650mm.
i give extra 150- 200mm+ for turret with ERA ,so total of between 800+/- 50mm with ERA .
In other words, it's the same or better than the vast majority of your tanks (T-72s + T-90S) and since we don't know the exact package that was bought by Pakistan (rumored to be different than the Thai purchase) it may be even better than that. Also, add to that its hardkill APS system against ATGMs.

Indian army has already issued a RFI for a new round with DOP greater than 600mm up to 800mm.
In other words, it'll take half a decade before you get it (and that's an optimistic timeline) knowing the procurement process of your army. There's no point in even mentioning this, since we don't know what sabot upgrades may be available to the VT-4 in the future, so let's leave that speculation out of it.

T 90MS can fire rounds like svinets 1, 740mm and Svinets 2 but with higher DOP ( 660mm )
These sabots will be shattered by the VT-4's frontal armor, even according to your own estimate. And because of its integrated battle management system, the VT-4 has a greater chance of flanking your MBT and getting first shots on their side armor, because of better tactical awareness.

Also... the VT-4 is the sexiest looking MBT in the world, especially in this camo (I'm guessing it's for the 6th Armored Division). So I'll add +10 points for that:

NORINCO-VT4-Tank-in-Pakistan
 
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Orthan

Junior Member
VT 4 is superior to T 90MS only in your and Chinese fanboys dream.
heh. indian vs pakistani poster.

I know nothing of this matter, but probably ill have to go with the indian side. On this particular contest, things could be different but AFAIK, Russian tank tech is still superior to the chinese one, and possibly the best in the world.
 

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