the latter, is the sailless an competeing design for the 09V ? their displacment is in the same class are they not ? so why 2 different designs ?
New sailless SSN (provisional)
- Thread starter ACuriousPLAFan
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Apparently according to HI Sutton it's dual construction at Huludao and JN
However, it seems from previous tenders JN has been collaborating with Huludao (Bohai yard) quite a bit. I previously assumed that this was for the Type 041 but it seems like it is now much more likely been this thing. Given the timelines lines up with the tender, attached above was from June 1st was calling for sea trials logistics for a "ship" that both JN and Bohai yard is involved in construction and now we see that the new submarine was launched for fitting out only days ago at JN.
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The understanding from what I gather is that both JN and Bohai have launched a sailless/small sail submarine of the same design in recent times.
There is no reason to think it's a "competing" design to 09V.
Doing "competing" designs for submarines of this size (likely SSN for the sailless one, and 09V being established SSN) isn't really done.
My expectation is more likely that they are complementary.
We know what 09V exists for.
This new sailless SSN is a different story.
This thread will be used to discuss the new sailless/small sail SSN reported to have been launched in JN and Bohai respectively, until their identities are clarified.
It may be that this ends up being the new dedicated thread for the topic.
It may be that this ends up being the new dedicated thread for the topic.
I agree that it is unlikely that it is competing desing, but then the question is even more interesting on what the role to build and test a sailess ,likely an SSN ?
Sure there is more then one job an SSN needs to do , but that still a few bilions a ship asset, is there a precedent for a navy to field 2 types of complementary nuclear attack sub?
Sure there is more then one job an SSN needs to do , but that still a few bilions a ship asset, is there a precedent for a navy to field 2 types of complementary nuclear attack sub?
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I'm not a sub expert, but what can we infer from the design as to it's purpose? SSN or SSGN, or something else? The lack of sail means less drag, is this some kind of very high speed killer (vs other SSNs? vs surface ships?), of the rough kind the soviets built during the cold war, such as Lira?
Way too early to tell without additional details.
Theoretically we can't fully rule out that it may even be a SSK rather than SSN (though unlikely)
For all we know this could be a special mission sub, oriented for ISR, or a new philosophy attack submarine, or some sort of multirole submarine.
The options are too many, and the lack of a sail (aka having a small sail) doesn't really rule in or rule out any possible roles.
Well we don't know if this sailless submarine is intended to be an attack submarine in the sense we know.
It might be more ISR or special mission oriented.
And if it does end up being an attack submarine that exists alongside 09V in future (alongside 09IIIB as well, actually given 09IIIB is still in production too), it wouldn't be entirely unprecedented.
The US and USSR in many ways fielded complementary attack submarine classes in a manner which wasn't only a reflection of technology advancement.
So I would keep an open mind, and instead of asking "what is it" best to ask "what could it be" ---- and the answers to that are many.
Speaking of which, how should we designate this submarine (at least for the time being)?
097? 09X? Or just a "new sailess submarine"? I am highly doubtful of this being a conventionally-powered submarine, though.
09X for now seems prudent I think, or "sailless sub/SSN"?
AFAIK, this thing is no less baguette like than Virginias which probably limits its maneuverability and speed hence unlikely to be some kind of underwater interceptor like the Alfa. HI Sutton's illustration also does seem to indicate that it is a double hulled or atleast hybrid hulled design but I'm not sure if that's because he reused old illustrations for Type 093B etc.
Longer length could make it better as a SSGN since you have more space for VLS but the smaller diameter seems to go against that IMO, especially when they have showed to be able to make larger 12m hulls for the 09V. Personally, it may be either some kind of new role or more likely a purpose built special mission submarine not unlike the Belgorod or Jimmy Carter. The tiny/non existent sail could be quite useful for clearance if they are trying to mount oversized equipment topside like a large UUV or some kind of Losharik equivalent while X rudders reduce overall profile and increase maneuverability so it could work in shallower waters or seabed.
Though I'm a bit tripped by dual yard construction which suggests this may not be a one off or limited run thing