New J-10 thread II
- Thread starter wlchang
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Hey THANKs a lot ... how could I have missed that !
So 60186 seems to be the "S", whereas 60185, 60187 and 60188 are the "A"
In my experience, people often do not understand the differences between a wide angle and a telephoto lens and often conclude many telephoto pictures to be photoshopped. Telephoto do not have a parallax effects against a near background or with near foreground or background objects. You literally need to have extremel distances in the background before parallax effects are evident. Telephotos tend to render subject, foreground and background in a flat manner, much like a traditional Chinese painting.
The difference between one picture and the other is that the one was taken with a wide angle, and the other is using a telephoto.
The fact remains that the difference of focal length could perfectly explain all the perspective differences between the two pictures.
Let me add that the two J-10s can be in focus if both planes are far enough and the f-stop or aperture is small enough. Narrow depth of field leading to out of focus occurs if the subjects are closer to the lens or a fast f-stop or large aperture is chosen.
I relooked at the night time picture, and it is a telephoto taking it because the foreground lights are blurred and out of focus.
You also fail to consider that a picture taken with a normal perspective, if you crop a certain segment of that picture, that segment image will look like a telephoto perspective, and will also demonstrate all its characteristics.
I've seen nothing there that cannot be performed under natural shooting conditions,
If it was a PS, blurring and pixel zigzags would be more apparent along the borders of the foreign images.
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Parallax effects are more than noticeable, with or without the wide angle lens/telephoto lens, since we are talking about relatively near objects, and not about relatively far objects like mountain ranges. One example would be the first picture in my previous post.
Furthermore, it should be remembered that the shot was taken from another plane's cockpit. Practical circumtances would prevent the use of telephoto lens at farther distances. For example, a tripod stand can't be used in the cockpit.
This, certainly, would not be to the extend that there will not be any noticeable (or measured) differences in the two planes' sizes in the second picture!
Recall that the shot was taken below both the planes. And, judging by the angle of the shot, the distance between the planes is even greater than what seems to be the case in the picture.
In any which way, lens effect would affect perspective in a certain degree but it won't remove it completely!
I intented to comment on the cover picture but ended up doing this instead.
The angle of the slat is the same! You can magnify it as much as you want but you'll only magnified the bluriness. (Take note that the missiles were photoshopped into slightly different positions. I cut away the missiles in the second image as it has a visual effect to judging the angle.) Anyway, I won't base my judgement only on this aspect of the picture as there are other more obvious clues.
Furthermore, it should be remembered that the shot was taken from another plane's cockpit. Practical circumtances would prevent the use of telephoto lens at farther distances. For example, a tripod stand can't be used in the cockpit.
This, certainly, would not be to the extend that there will not be any noticeable (or measured) differences in the two planes' sizes in the second picture!
Recall that the shot was taken below both the planes. And, judging by the angle of the shot, the distance between the planes is even greater than what seems to be the case in the picture.
In any which way, lens effect would affect perspective in a certain degree but it won't remove it completely!
I intented to comment on the cover picture but ended up doing this instead.
The angle of the slat is the same! You can magnify it as much as you want but you'll only magnified the bluriness. (Take note that the missiles were photoshopped into slightly different positions. I cut away the missiles in the second image as it has a visual effect to judging the angle.) Anyway, I won't base my judgement only on this aspect of the picture as there are other more obvious clues.
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Nonsense. Parallax effects are barely noticeable. You need a detailed background to get a measurement of parallax, and you don't.
Comments like this suggest you truly don't know, never handled, never truly experienced the use of telephoto and wide angle lenses.
Wrong. You obviously don't know photography---NOT BY A LONG SHOT. Continue to comment and make a fool out of yourself.
One issue of using wide angles in shooting aviation photography is that the result often end up with two tiny planes amidst a very blue sky occupying much of the picture. In order to get some pictures, you have to be flying close, and maybe a bit too close. In other words, you have too much excessive FOV in your image.
Telephotos allow you to crop an image, by selectively limiting your FOV to make the subjects fill the picture properly. You can do that when a camera has a zoom lens. And why do you need a tripod? You have bright daylight, and you can use fast ISO film. The shutter speeds are high enough even if you stop down the aperture, which increases your depth of field.
You can even get exactly the same effect with a normal lens (50mm), and then selectively crop only part of the image you need.
The grain in the image do strongly suggest that this is either a fast ISO film, or a slow to medium ISO film that had been cropped and magnified. Let me add to you that Photoshop does not do a good job recreating the look of chemical film grain.
Bull. The angle of the slot is obviously not the same. One is slightly lower than the other.
Another thing is that there are tons and tons of pictures like this, even with birds. Pictures of the Blue Angels, pictures of the Thunderbirds, pictures of the Red Knights and about every aerobatic team in the world, and these pictures look very much like this, planes two to four, flying in precise formation looking very much like a copy of each other. Suffice to say this is a very common aviation picture theme.
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Take your off topic arguing elsewhere! This is thread about J-10 which has nothing to do with someone's knowlidge or ignorance over the theory of photographing. If I spot either of you continuing this rumble after this message, a official warnings will follow and as one of you have blue colours, I expect the "seniority" of him to stand out and focus on the actual issues.
Is this enough of harsh words?
Gollevainen, Spanish Inqvisition
Take your off topic arguing elsewhere! This is thread about J-10 which has nothing to do with someone's knowlidge or ignorance over the theory of photographing. If I spot either of you continuing this rumble after this message, a official warnings will follow and as one of you have blue colours, I expect the "seniority" of him to stand out and focus on the actual issues.
Is this enough of harsh words?
Gollevainen, Spanish Inqvisition
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Test pilot interview
googled edited a few parts for brevity. one part reveals some frustrations with early missile testing on the J-10.
Xu Yongling, the second test flight of the Air Force-level experts, the first two bachelor's degrees, the air force pilot, test pilot, Only one member of China's three international flights. They advanced proficiency in China's third generation fighter plane and the various equipment fighters, transports carrying out their duties. Up to now, more than 1,800 hours of flight safety, proper disposal of more than 20 aerial danger.
Can you talk about your objective evaluation of the F-10 in a controlled and practical experience.
Xuyongling : as a test pilot, lifetime flights in the high-performance fighters such as the F-10 is one of my "good fortune" I am flying! many at home and abroad the same type of aircraft, but few such as the F-10 is a good man-machine interface and exchange flying qualities. F-10 aircraft a digital fly-by-wire system is used in the drive can be completed "human loop." In simple terms is the manipulation of the pilot signal strength will be the case onboard flight control computer. computer signal processing, and through the transmission signal parameter steering, and the completion of the aircraft's rudder control drive, so a complete cycle of the feedback loop. Compared to the computer data processing, HUD and through information transmitted to the multi-functional displays will test flight, the aircraft's test flight, in quality control, efficiency, comfort and intuitive than traditional aircraft and other aspects of qualitative leap. First, I want to say-one F-10 aircraft under the "efficient." One of the F-10 makes use of advanced fly-by-wire control, joystick in hand to feel the pressure sensor. Onboard computer control signals sent to and from a computer calculation based on the best real-time control of volume aircraft, and the control signal sent rudder control system aircraft to adjust posture. This will not only reduce the burden on the pilot, but also give full play to duck the aircraft's maneuverability. Figuratively, the pilot driving takeoff weight of the aircraft in the past, will feel the steering stick very Shen, Sometimes, the body should stick to leave the seat back to the ground after the pilot flying clothes are often soaked by sweat. But the F-10 is a fax aircraft, the pilot manipulated by the steering stick to force information into signals further into steering parameters, driven aircraft and the control of the rudder completed, we will feel very handy; appears to be a vehicle to install power steering system. need not be effectively completed very strong driving movements. F-10 fighters with very different second-generation drivers, system administrators into a test flight by operators. HMI aircraft instruments from the traditional style into a "menu". This means the test flight pilots must possess considerable engineering background. Access procedures can be adopted by the steering stick into the menu. Through the different buttons on the steering stick Integrated Avionics conversion can be achieved, bombs, missiles, rockets, electronic warfare, Radar function of the various functions that can be said is very convenient, very efficient.
Brother : I-, if the F-10 completed a long-range attack, the pilots in order to "facilitate" how do?
Xu Yong; MR : This is not to worry, we will be issued per person on the plane "urine is not wet," not in general. But the key moment can really understand the "immediate need." (We both "Baoxiao"). Return-1 under the F-10's "security", the safety is a broad one, including the overall test flight safety including the safety of the aircraft itself. According to statistics, in the West have Shuaiguo fax aircraft's maiden flight. Throughout the development of the F-10 and no one Shuaiguo an airplane, I was told that this was "lucky" and the fact that they simply do not know. China is a developing F-10 aircraft in the lessons learned abroad, strengthening the flight simulator training variable-stability aircraft to simulate the various risks, which makes test flight in a test flight when do know, This is called "risk overdrawn." Fax plane crashes because of the reasons is the largest foreign "human coupling." F-10 aircraft in a test flight when there was a severe human coupling. Aircraft landing at 180 meters above the ground when suddenly a horizontal swing manipulation becomes very difficult. Due to the use of variable-stability test pilot induced oscillation similar simulation, test pilot knows no time bar for stability operations, Instead of "ignore" the manipulation methods. He then fuel to go around to avoid a serious accident. Otherwise, it sure that the F-10 onto a one. F-10 aircraft itself on the safety, health small fault when the aircraft, the aircraft's flight control system can be compensated automatically This is China's traditional aircraft have taken a quantum leap forward, while the F-10 aircraft rescue a perfect system. After the air test, dive, roll, dive pulled up worldwide, six under the actual speed detection. This would provide the most reliable guarantee for the flight. I want to emphasize that the aircraft can be automated fax solution small failures, but if a major fault and special situations. The flight control system is not compensation, leave room for disposal of a relatively smaller test flight, which is also the risk lies FBW aircraft. Finally, I turn to the F-10 aircraft of the "comfort." Objectively speaking, the F-10 aircraft environmental control system is the best aircraft. Sometimes opened airborne air-conditioning, automatic start driving luxury cars still uncomfortable feeling than sitting. This is really grateful to the Chinese aviation plant involved in the tests, sometimes in "fault-finding." frequently asked our pilot's feelings, we reflect the problem, city immediately be resolved. Remember the late test flight, test pilot felt the plane Display brightness high, it will affect the observed outside the cabin. manufacturers will send specialists to resolve. Through the next few tests, the final "stickers mold" a way to completely solve the problems. F-10 : the ultimate manifestation of the author or fire fighting capacity.
Can you talk about the link test flight of the F-10 combat
Zou Jianguo : One of the F-10 combat aircraft are mainly embodied in aerial bombs, air-to-air, air-to-ground and air-to-ship missile rockets and electronic warfare areas. I have previously completed a variety of tasks range test fighters live, Not such an aircraft like the F-10 in a state of complete bombings achieve the arbitrary action. As long as the air will be locked on the target, we can carry out an attack, simple operation and high precision. F-10 aircraft in the air can simultaneously track a few months, be able to crack down on a number of objectives. Onboard, a J-10 air-to-air missile live-fire test is a series of frustrations. The missile has been widely used in a series of domestically produced J-8 fighters. developed by China itself is a kind of air-to-air missiles were launched from the interception. In the F-10 aircraft for a successful use of this type of missile, the test flight lasted for a long time simulation training and drills. But live-fire testing is a relatively large risk, missile launch by the end of the aircraft engine smoke may cause "to swallow the smoke," and "surge" caused mid-air parking, as a single plane, stopping once in the low-altitude engine, test pilot ejected only. I really target in the head, officials, the cabin, I firmly fixed on screen is the target of a shooting box. When the drone in the screen is demonstrated in the "bullet" into the fire boxes regional, I resolutely pressed the button to launch the missile. "Whoosh" bang, a dashing wing aircraft fire from the jet out of the water like a missile guidance straight goals, A distant sky turf "fireworks" and hit the target accurately. But we have also seen a missile test-launch of the enormous difficulties, the test firing the missile missed its target during a test of the air. Through joint efforts, we think the main reason is the failure of the range test aircraft radar "main beams" caused by interference. Find, test pilot made a missile test-launch of the "anterior range test, a head-mobile" and "after the end of the range test. Tactical aircraft contained "and the missile test was a success. One of the F-10 aircraft's electronic warfare jamming and mainly rely on IFF, anti-jamming capability. In short, the F-10 is an outstanding performance of an air mobility, combat effectiveness of the outstanding fighters, and in the future it will certainly become an important force in safeguarding the motherland's security and integrity
googled edited a few parts for brevity. one part reveals some frustrations with early missile testing on the J-10.
Xu Yongling, the second test flight of the Air Force-level experts, the first two bachelor's degrees, the air force pilot, test pilot, Only one member of China's three international flights. They advanced proficiency in China's third generation fighter plane and the various equipment fighters, transports carrying out their duties. Up to now, more than 1,800 hours of flight safety, proper disposal of more than 20 aerial danger.
Can you talk about your objective evaluation of the F-10 in a controlled and practical experience.
Xuyongling : as a test pilot, lifetime flights in the high-performance fighters such as the F-10 is one of my "good fortune" I am flying! many at home and abroad the same type of aircraft, but few such as the F-10 is a good man-machine interface and exchange flying qualities. F-10 aircraft a digital fly-by-wire system is used in the drive can be completed "human loop." In simple terms is the manipulation of the pilot signal strength will be the case onboard flight control computer. computer signal processing, and through the transmission signal parameter steering, and the completion of the aircraft's rudder control drive, so a complete cycle of the feedback loop. Compared to the computer data processing, HUD and through information transmitted to the multi-functional displays will test flight, the aircraft's test flight, in quality control, efficiency, comfort and intuitive than traditional aircraft and other aspects of qualitative leap. First, I want to say-one F-10 aircraft under the "efficient." One of the F-10 makes use of advanced fly-by-wire control, joystick in hand to feel the pressure sensor. Onboard computer control signals sent to and from a computer calculation based on the best real-time control of volume aircraft, and the control signal sent rudder control system aircraft to adjust posture. This will not only reduce the burden on the pilot, but also give full play to duck the aircraft's maneuverability. Figuratively, the pilot driving takeoff weight of the aircraft in the past, will feel the steering stick very Shen, Sometimes, the body should stick to leave the seat back to the ground after the pilot flying clothes are often soaked by sweat. But the F-10 is a fax aircraft, the pilot manipulated by the steering stick to force information into signals further into steering parameters, driven aircraft and the control of the rudder completed, we will feel very handy; appears to be a vehicle to install power steering system. need not be effectively completed very strong driving movements. F-10 fighters with very different second-generation drivers, system administrators into a test flight by operators. HMI aircraft instruments from the traditional style into a "menu". This means the test flight pilots must possess considerable engineering background. Access procedures can be adopted by the steering stick into the menu. Through the different buttons on the steering stick Integrated Avionics conversion can be achieved, bombs, missiles, rockets, electronic warfare, Radar function of the various functions that can be said is very convenient, very efficient.
Brother : I-, if the F-10 completed a long-range attack, the pilots in order to "facilitate" how do?
Xu Yong; MR : This is not to worry, we will be issued per person on the plane "urine is not wet," not in general. But the key moment can really understand the "immediate need." (We both "Baoxiao"). Return-1 under the F-10's "security", the safety is a broad one, including the overall test flight safety including the safety of the aircraft itself. According to statistics, in the West have Shuaiguo fax aircraft's maiden flight. Throughout the development of the F-10 and no one Shuaiguo an airplane, I was told that this was "lucky" and the fact that they simply do not know. China is a developing F-10 aircraft in the lessons learned abroad, strengthening the flight simulator training variable-stability aircraft to simulate the various risks, which makes test flight in a test flight when do know, This is called "risk overdrawn." Fax plane crashes because of the reasons is the largest foreign "human coupling." F-10 aircraft in a test flight when there was a severe human coupling. Aircraft landing at 180 meters above the ground when suddenly a horizontal swing manipulation becomes very difficult. Due to the use of variable-stability test pilot induced oscillation similar simulation, test pilot knows no time bar for stability operations, Instead of "ignore" the manipulation methods. He then fuel to go around to avoid a serious accident. Otherwise, it sure that the F-10 onto a one. F-10 aircraft itself on the safety, health small fault when the aircraft, the aircraft's flight control system can be compensated automatically This is China's traditional aircraft have taken a quantum leap forward, while the F-10 aircraft rescue a perfect system. After the air test, dive, roll, dive pulled up worldwide, six under the actual speed detection. This would provide the most reliable guarantee for the flight. I want to emphasize that the aircraft can be automated fax solution small failures, but if a major fault and special situations. The flight control system is not compensation, leave room for disposal of a relatively smaller test flight, which is also the risk lies FBW aircraft. Finally, I turn to the F-10 aircraft of the "comfort." Objectively speaking, the F-10 aircraft environmental control system is the best aircraft. Sometimes opened airborne air-conditioning, automatic start driving luxury cars still uncomfortable feeling than sitting. This is really grateful to the Chinese aviation plant involved in the tests, sometimes in "fault-finding." frequently asked our pilot's feelings, we reflect the problem, city immediately be resolved. Remember the late test flight, test pilot felt the plane Display brightness high, it will affect the observed outside the cabin. manufacturers will send specialists to resolve. Through the next few tests, the final "stickers mold" a way to completely solve the problems. F-10 : the ultimate manifestation of the author or fire fighting capacity.
Can you talk about the link test flight of the F-10 combat
Zou Jianguo : One of the F-10 combat aircraft are mainly embodied in aerial bombs, air-to-air, air-to-ground and air-to-ship missile rockets and electronic warfare areas. I have previously completed a variety of tasks range test fighters live, Not such an aircraft like the F-10 in a state of complete bombings achieve the arbitrary action. As long as the air will be locked on the target, we can carry out an attack, simple operation and high precision. F-10 aircraft in the air can simultaneously track a few months, be able to crack down on a number of objectives. Onboard, a J-10 air-to-air missile live-fire test is a series of frustrations. The missile has been widely used in a series of domestically produced J-8 fighters. developed by China itself is a kind of air-to-air missiles were launched from the interception. In the F-10 aircraft for a successful use of this type of missile, the test flight lasted for a long time simulation training and drills. But live-fire testing is a relatively large risk, missile launch by the end of the aircraft engine smoke may cause "to swallow the smoke," and "surge" caused mid-air parking, as a single plane, stopping once in the low-altitude engine, test pilot ejected only. I really target in the head, officials, the cabin, I firmly fixed on screen is the target of a shooting box. When the drone in the screen is demonstrated in the "bullet" into the fire boxes regional, I resolutely pressed the button to launch the missile. "Whoosh" bang, a dashing wing aircraft fire from the jet out of the water like a missile guidance straight goals, A distant sky turf "fireworks" and hit the target accurately. But we have also seen a missile test-launch of the enormous difficulties, the test firing the missile missed its target during a test of the air. Through joint efforts, we think the main reason is the failure of the range test aircraft radar "main beams" caused by interference. Find, test pilot made a missile test-launch of the "anterior range test, a head-mobile" and "after the end of the range test. Tactical aircraft contained "and the missile test was a success. One of the F-10 aircraft's electronic warfare jamming and mainly rely on IFF, anti-jamming capability. In short, the F-10 is an outstanding performance of an air mobility, combat effectiveness of the outstanding fighters, and in the future it will certainly become an important force in safeguarding the motherland's security and integrity
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