New J-10 thread II

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Deino

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Hmmm ... and I always thought the J-10 had a very "clean" and "smooth" surface !! :confused:
 

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tphuang

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posted on CDF and all over Chinese forums
“歼十工程”参与者透露年内歼十换“中国心”


2007年04月14日 08:08:27  来源:扬子晚报



“歼十”今年就能装上“中国心”!“‘歼十’的成功相当于小学生学完了大学课程,而且拿到了毕业文凭。”昨天,一批参与“歼十飞机工程”的南航校友回到母校,成都飞机工业公司董事长罗荣怀、成都飞机设计研究所科技委主任李文正等“歼十”有功人员向记者透露了“歼十”研制过程幕后许多不为人知的故事。

“歼十”飞机工程,随着中国2006年度国家科技进步特等奖的揭晓,家喻户晓。然而在研制中却有很多惊心动魄的故事。中国飞行试验研究院党委书记于以贵说,在试飞中就遇到了很多困难,特别是有些风险项目,如发动机“空中停车”,发动机一旦启动不起来,就会失去控制。飞行员即使掌握空中停车的技术后,也需要很大勇气。在飞机速度飞到极限时,声音像大轰鸣,根本听不到外面的声音,飞行员必须紧盯着仪表盘,全身心控制好速度。有很多飞行员在危急关头,都像爱护自己的孩子一样爱护飞机,甚至可以置生命于不顾。

在研制 “歼十”的过程中,常常会遇到突如其来的难题,而这时需要的就是急智攻关。成都飞机工业公司董事长罗荣怀告诉记者,在“歼十”研制过程中,一次在制造进气口道的超大型铸件时,由于技术尚不成熟,扫描产品时发现已超出允许误差的限度,可就这么一个“独生子”,如果再造一个周期太长,要改造吧稍微出现误差又将报废。此时工程人员发挥自己的聪明才智,先做了一个模型,用网格点来试切,这样只花了一周时间,就摸索出全部的切分数据,再用数控机床硬是一刀一刀地在铸件薄壁上磨出尺寸合格的产品。“‘歼十’的成功,相当于小学生学完了大学课程,而且拿到了毕业文凭。”成都飞机设计研究所科技委主任李文正回忆起飞机的研制过程深有感触。据他介绍,由于起步晚,目前我国的航天制造尚存在很多缺憾,搞“歼十”的研制,实际上是把小学生放到大学学习,任务十分艰巨。参数数据显示,“歼十”属于第三代先进型战机,特别是它的机动性十分突出,转弯、爬升转化速度快,时间短。目前我国在发动机领域也正在加快发展,实际上在研制“歼十”的同时就已经成功研制了发动机,但为了更谨慎,试飞仍使用成熟发动机,不过可以肯定的是,今年“歼十”一定能装上一颗“中国心”。 (扬子晚报)
just a lot of propoganda the Chinese style, but the gist of it is that j-10 will be using a domestic engine. Not really a surprise, since I think some are already equipped with WS-10/A and in interviews early this year, they said J-10 had the option of equipping WS-10A. I guess no more orders of AL-31FN maybe.
 

tphuang

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Not really, they will continue to buy I think, just to maintain the relationship btwn Chinese and Russian engine industry. Russian is still advanced than Chinese in this field.
They will buy more if it's needed. Why should they buy more if WS-10A can achieve the specs of AL-31FN-M1?
anyway, more on this. It's just another article on equipping WS-10A on J-10. Nothing new. I think the issue here is that J-10 have been able to use WS-10A for a while, but with the increased production rate, they can fill the demand of J-10.
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扬子晚报网4月14日报道 昨天,一批参与“歼十飞机工程”的南航校友回到母校,成都飞机工业公司董事长罗荣怀、成都飞机设计研究所科技委主任李文正等“歼十”有功人员向记者透露了“歼十”研制过程幕后许多不为人知的故事。

“歼十”飞机工程,随着中国2006年度国家科技进步特等奖的揭晓,家喻户晓。然而在研制中却有很多惊心动魄的故事。中国飞行试验研究院党委书记于以贵说,在试飞中就遇到了很多困难,特别是有些风险项目,如发动机“空中停车”,发动机一旦启动不起来,就会失去控制。飞行员即使掌握空中停车的技术后,也需要很大勇气。在飞机速度飞到极限时,声音像大轰鸣,根本听不到外面的声音,飞行员必须紧盯着仪表盘,全身心控制好速度。有很多飞行员在危急关头,都像爱护自己的孩子一样爱护飞机,甚至可以置生命于不顾。

在研制“歼十”的过程中,常常会遇到突如其来的难题,而这时需要的就是急智攻关。成都飞机工业公司董事长罗荣怀告诉记者,在“歼十”研制过程中,一次在制造进气口道的超大型铸件时,由于技术尚不成熟,扫描产品时发现已超出允许误差的限度,可就这么一个“独生子”,如果再造一个周期太长,要改造吧稍微出现误差又将报废。此时工程人员发挥自己的聪明才智,先做了一个模型,用网格点来试切,这样只花了一周时间,就摸索出全部的切分数据,再用数控机床硬是一刀一刀地在铸件薄壁上磨出尺寸合格的产品。

“‘歼十’的成功,相当于小学生学完了大学课程,而且拿到了毕业文凭。”成都飞机设计研究所科技委主任李文正回忆起飞机的研制过程深有感触。据他介绍,由于起步晚,目前我国的航天制造尚存在很多缺憾,搞“歼十”的研制,实际上是把小学生放到大学学习,任务十分艰巨。参数数据显示,“歼十”属于第三代先进型战机,特别是它的机动性十分突出,转弯、爬升转化速度快,时间短。目前我国在发动机领域也正在加快发展,实际上在研制“歼十”的同时就已经成功研制了发动机,但为了更谨慎,试飞仍使用成熟发动机,不过可以肯定的是,今年“歼十”一定能装上一颗 “中国心”。 杨迈祺
 

crobato

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AL-31FM1 actually has more power than WS-10A. The engine produces 13,500kg, or somewhere around 32,000lbs. That exceeds even the Block 52+ F-16s in sheer thrust, and puts it in the same range as the engine of the Block 60/F-16E/F.

But really its a question of what China will decide. Despite Putin asking that China must address its trade imbalance of finished goods with Russia, Hu also laid policy last December that the PLA should rely as much more on its domestically made equipment.

As time flies without a renewal order, it is becoming likely that China will choose the WS-10A on its J-10s even at the expense of performance edge. Nonetheless some orders of AL-31FN are still possible for use as reserves. Another catalyst for the J-10 to WS-10A is the potential Pakistan order, and I don't think China and Pakistan wants to go through the engine issue for the second time.
 

fishhead

Banned Idiot
I am still not convinced that China will stop ordering Russian engine at the moment. Last year some source said another 300 were ordered(I can't remember where it was said now).

A New engine won't get muture until at least 5 years into batch production, WS-10A only entered design certification last year, not sure exactly when it got production certification, only after that it can enter the batch production.
 

AmiGanguli

Junior Member
Fishhead: while it may take a long time to "mature", that doesn't mean you don't use the engine. In fact it will never mature if it doesn't get used. The reason older designs are considered more mature is because they've been used and tweaked for so long.

Normally you just specify a shorter time-before-overhaul for a new design and inspect carefully for any signs of trouble.

... Ami.
 

Scratch

Captain
Hmmm ... and I always thought the J-10 had a very "clean" and "smooth" surface !! :confused:

Maybe mass-production of the aircraft already takes it's toll. But somehow the feeling of this pic is ... strange.

If PLAAF intends to introduce J-10 in greater numbers, having two different engines shouldn't be that much of a problem.
Some J-10 regiments could evaluate WS-10A while others just have the edge on performance (AL-31) and see what a stronger engine can do with that plane.
 

AmiGanguli

Junior Member
Maybe mass-production of the aircraft already takes it's toll. But somehow the feeling of this pic is ... strange.

I think it's because the rivets and angle give it an alien/organic feel. Like the tentacle robots from The Matrix, or War of the Worlds.

Also the colours have been enhanced, either by a filter on the camera or some photoshopping afterwards.

... Ami.
 
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