New Energy Vehicles (NEVs) in China


supercat

Junior Member
I did not know that China produces so much hydrogen - one third of the world's total production.
China now produces a third of the world’s hydrogen, or 20 million metric tons a year, or enough to cover a tenth of the country’s total energy needs. At an estimated fuel consumption of 7.5 kilograms of hydrogen for every 100 miles of road haulage, according to Fuelcelslworks.com, China’s present output potentially could power a truck fleet over 267 billion miles a year of transport – more than enough to meet the country’s present annual 6 billion ton-miles of road transportation.

The cost of hydrogen production is falling, from $6 per kilogram in 2015 to $2 per kilogram in 2025, according to a US Department of Energy study.

China led the world in deployment of cost-efficient solar energy, and many analysts expect China to do the same with hydrogen. A study by Chinese scientists argues that a $2/kg hydrogen price can be achieved quickly through electrolysis of water, which produces the purest hydrogen with the lowest overall environmental impact.

According to the
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, freight and bus transportation with FCVs becomes economically viable at a hydrogen price of $3/kg, and passenger car FCVs become viable at $2/kg.

Apart from China’s comparatively low production costs for hydrogen, a shift to this fuel source contributes to China’s energy security. As of the first half of 2020 China imported 73% of its oil consumption and substituting home-produced hydrogen for imported oil is a national security measure as well as an economic and environmental consideration.
Why hydrogen fuel is viable for heavy trucks/buses:
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Here is some relevant news that reports China's breakthrough in converting solar power to liquid fuel, including hydrogen (it has been posted somewhere before):
The research work on "artificial photosynthesis for solar fuels production" started in 2001: the first step is to turn light into energy in the form of photovoltaic power, the second step is to electrolyze water to make hydrogen, and the third step is to hydrogenate carbon dioxide to make methanol.
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BTW, 40% of newly generated solar power will be located in China:
But it is China that stands in the most advantageous position. A total of 40% of the world's new solar power generation capacity is constructed there. And the country's share of global electricity generated by the sun has jumped from 2% in 2010 to 32% in 2018.
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Nutrient

Junior Member
Registered Member
The research work on "artificial photosynthesis for solar fuels production" started in 2001: the first step is to turn light into energy in the form of photovoltaic power, the second step is to electrolyze water to make hydrogen, and the third step is to hydrogenate carbon dioxide to make methanol.

I was happy about converting solar power to methanol, until I realized, methanol is CH3OH. Every molecule has a carbon atom in it. Where does the carbon come from? If it's from the air, the process will be very slow: carbon dioxide is like 0.04 percent -- yes, the fraction 0.0004 -- of air.

That is probably why the currently most popular process for producing methanol starts with methane (natural gas). Needless to say, methane is a fossil fuel and therefore not sustainable, not to mention that using it will add to the atmosphere's carbon load.

So I'm not as happy as I was with the solar-powered synthesis process for methanol. Electric cars are still a good idea, although trucks could use the methanol.
 

voyager1

Junior Member
Registered Member
I was happy about converting solar power to methanol, until I realized, methanol is CH3OH. Every molecule has a carbon atom in it. Where does the carbon come from? If it's from the air, the process will be very slow: carbon dioxide is like 0.04 percent -- yes, the fraction 0.0004 -- of air.

That is probably why the currently most popular process for producing methanol starts with methane (natural gas). Needless to say, methane is a fossil fuel and therefore not sustainable, not to mention that using it will add to the atmosphere's carbon load.

So I'm not as happy as I was with the solar-powered synthesis process for methanol. Electric cars are still a good idea, although trucks could use hydrogen or methanol.
I am not a chemist so please dont mind if I make a big mistake here.

Couldn't the carbon be retreived from either carbon capture systems (long term) or from carbon storage systems (short term with coal plants and other polluting industries)
 

Crang

Senior Member
Registered Member
Why? This is what we call Western Soft Power & colonial hangover. People especially Asians believe that Western products/culture are hallmarks of excellence. Hence Western Luxury clothing (LV, Chanel,Dior etc), Cosmetics (Loreal, Maybelline), Electronics (Iphones), Shoes (Nike) etc dominate the Chinese market.
It will take a lot of time before this slave mentality is shed.
The people buying cars are mainly middle aged people who grew up in a pro-West, honeymoon period. The younger generation are more pro-China but they have not reached the big ticket consumption phase.
 

Nutrient

Junior Member
Registered Member
I am not a chemist so please dont mind if I make a big mistake here.

Couldn't the carbon be retreived from either carbon capture systems (long term) or from carbon storage systems (short term with coal plants and other polluting industries)
I'm no chemist either. But you may have a good idea. Perhaps some coal-burning power stations could be retrofitted with the methanol synthesis apparatus, if there's enough water nearby.
 

voyager1

Junior Member
Registered Member
Xiaomi investing 10bn dollars in the next 10 years on its electric vehicle unit

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"Xiaomi hopes to offer quality smart electric vehicles to let everyone in the world enjoy smart living anytime, anywhere," Xiaomi said in a filing submitted to the Hong Kong Stock Exchange, where it is listed.
There is a tremendous opportunity for Xiaomi to integrate all of its smart devices with its new car.
 

t2contra

Major
Why? This is what we call Western Soft Power & colonial hangover. People especially Asians believe that Western products/culture are hallmarks of excellence. Hence Western Luxury clothing (LV, Chanel,Dior etc), Cosmetics (Loreal, Maybelline), Electronics (Iphones), Shoes (Nike) etc dominate the Chinese market.
It will take a lot of time before this slave mentality is shed.

This:
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US electric carmaker Tesla set its sights on attracting Chinese buyers and outmaneuvering domestic rivals when it shaved about 30 percent off its previously announced prices for its Model Y series in the China market.

The decision, announced on New Year’s Day, reflects growing competition in the domestic electric-car industry and places new pressure on Chinese startups such as NIO, WM Motor and Xpeng.
 

voyager1

Junior Member
Registered Member
This:
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Good for Tesla. Chinese gov wants Tesla to be the shark which will be ultracompetitive to whip the local automakers into shape and transform them into world class companies.

Elon Musk might be a lot of things but he aint stupid. This man is laser focused on supply costs, vertical integration, and ultra-competitiveness. The local automakers should try and learn from him on these issues if they want to become dominant companies on the domestic and potential export markets
 

ansy1968

Captain
Registered Member
Xiaomi investing 10bn dollars in the next 10 years on its electric vehicle unit

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There is a tremendous opportunity for Xiaomi to integrate all of its smart devices with its new car.
@voyager1 I'm not an admirer of Xiaomi, they follow the business concept of Apple as a result they are more of an incremental innovator not like Huawei.
 

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