New Energy Vehicles (NEVs) in China

supersnoop

Major
Registered Member
P

This is because Proton is owned by a political party and administrated along the party policies, with guaranteed government assistances and protections from competitors. Foreign auto are tariffed out of the local market. So car is just average at best and at very high price. Can't sell anywhere else.

That is the point. Proton had the full support and funding from the Malaysian government. They used this capital to attract Mitsubishi's know how and technology into the company. Geely did not have the same level of support, but now Geely is the owner of Proton. Technology transfer is meaningless if the enterprise is not structured to be a sustainable business, even if it is a government entity.

The Chinese JV companies might not be great at cultivating technology innovators, but they were good incubators of business managers. Even then, I think the OP might be writing off SAIC too early. MG EV is selling well in some Western markets. There may be hope yet.
 

Minm

Junior Member
Registered Member
The Chinese JV companies might not be great at cultivating technology innovators, but they were good incubators of business managers. Even then, I think the OP might be writing off SAIC too early. MG EV is selling well in some Western markets. There may be hope yet.
JVs don't just create managers, they also create many skilled workers and a network of domestic suppliers. New, fully domestic companies can then hire those workers and use the supply chains that the JVs have built. Auto JVs were the right tool to use 20 years ago. Today, it's different
 

broadsword

Brigadier
That is the point. Proton had the full support and funding from the Malaysian government. They used this capital to attract Mitsubishi's know how and technology into the company. Geely did not have the same level of support, but now Geely is the owner of Proton. Technology transfer is meaningless if the enterprise is not structured to be a sustainable business, even if it is a government entity.

The Chinese JV companies might not be great at cultivating technology innovators, but they were good incubators of business managers. Even then, I think the OP might be writing off SAIC too early. MG EV is selling well in some Western markets. There may be hope yet.

Geely's ownership is 49.9%. Never mind, the Malaysian government is probably contented to let Geely run the JV.
 

4Runner

Junior Member
Registered Member
Geely's ownership is 49.9%. Never mind, the Malaysian government is probably contented to let Geely run the JV.
They had no better choice. Proton was Mahathir's pet project. Countries like Malaysia have little chance to sustain a self-branded modern car manufacturing enterprise. Geely gets efficiency. Proton gets life's support. This is a typical marriage of convenience. A smarter choice might be to get into the supply chain, like Indonesia leveraging minerals for battery manufacturing.
 

tphuang

Lieutenant General
Staff member
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Apple has been looking to get into car industry for a while and has picked either Foxconn or Luxshare as its car producer. This seems a little strange since neither company are known in this area.
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Looks to me Apple has went to its existing suppliers after finding out that it could not get BYD/CATL to follow its orders. Anyhow, I'm posting this because Chinese social media has speculation that there is a large Chinese NEV company that's very involved in this project. We will see which company that is in the coming days.

The other thing is a report that BYD blade factory is having some issues delivering batteries for an external customer (speculated to be Tesla) due to the extremely high requirement in thickness tolerance (0.03 mm required vs 0.1 mm on normal blade battery). I found this to be quite interesting. I think this is a great learning experience For BYD. As BYD's battery subsidiary keep pushing forward with more external customers, they will have to deal with higher requirements that will probably also bring in higher revenues/cost. It seems like once they've done the work to meet Tesla's requirements, they can pretty much meet anyone's requirement whether that would be VW or Ford or Apple or someone else.

BYD also signed agreement to build a huge factory in Zhengzhou that apparently can product 1 million car a year as well as 30 Gwh of blade battery. The first stage will start production in Mar 30th 2023 and have production capacity of 400k car. The second phase will start production on June 30th 2023 with production capacity of 600k car. If you wonder why BYD's margins isn't higher, they are going through such a huge ramp up right now that requires a lot of new hiring costs and capital costs in new plants which are not going to show up in immediate profits, but will help them capture market share for the future. BYD to me is operating like Amazon right now. Forever expanding and getting into new spaces. A lot of ambitious goals for this company.

New BYD product so far announced in 2022 includes
2022 version Han DMi/DMp
Seal
2022 Tang DMp/EV
Frigate 07
Denza D9 MPV
Denza SUV

Frigate 07 spec is medium to large SUV using with DMi/DMp variant, 200 km range on battery alone, focuses in on the 200 to 300k RMB market. It is a product designed for the worldwide market based on Song platform. Its production base is in Xi'an.

Supposedly, all the models this year are aiming in the 200k+ and 300k+ RMB market. Next year, they will have model in the 400k+ and 500k+ market. I'd be really curious what they come up with for the luxury market, since that will be their first crack in the competitive but also high margin segment. The Seal already looks pretty amazing. I wonder what adding another 150 to 200k would bring to customers.

Apparently, Shanghai local officials really bent over backward to get Tesla production going again. Sounds like they got a good working relationship with Tesla. Tesla has already announced expansion at Shanghai recently to reach 2 million in production level. It's likely they will continue to add factories in China outside of Shanghai. Obvious locations are Jilin and around Beijing area, which are where a lot of the other foreign JV/automakers are based in. I don't think a foreign automaker like Tesla is wiling to take a chance in areas with less automotive industrial base.
 

caudaceus

Senior Member
Registered Member
why will they built battery plant in Germany with super expensive labor/utilities and declining auto market. I doubt most Europeans can afford German built cars unless they are majority built in Eastern EU with global parts. and seeing where world is heading. Europe will be the last place for industrial investment.
Talent and supply chain availability
 

4Runner

Junior Member
Registered Member
If Daddy Elon can even defy daddy Xi's lockdown who knows what he can do to US government! Daddy Elon for USTR! /s
Nobody can defy Xi in China. Jack Ma was order of magnitude more influential in China before his stupid speech at that ill-fated Bund Forum. China started selected and isolated resumption of some production in the midst of the Shanghai lockdown is consistent with its Covid management strategy since Wuhan. Because of its overall Covid Zero prevention as well as its proactive management strategy, China is capable of resuming some economic activities without breaching the overall Covid Zero deployment.

Elon may be a God in the west. He is just another capitalist in China.
 

coolgod

Captain
Registered Member
Apparently, Shanghai local officials really bent over backward to get Tesla production going again. Sounds like they got a good working relationship with Tesla. Tesla has already announced expansion at Shanghai recently to reach 2 million in production level. It's likely they will continue to add factories in China outside of Shanghai. Obvious locations are Jilin and around Beijing area, which are where a lot of the other foreign JV/automakers are based in. I don't think a foreign automaker like Tesla is wiling to take a chance in areas with less automotive industrial base.
I don't think Tesla will add factories in China outside Shanghai, it's inefficient as they can always get more land in Shanghai. Nonetheless, if they were to expand, it would more likely be Guangzhou compared to Jilin and Beijing, as Shanghai and Guangzhou were the final two locations to choose between for Tesla before.
 
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