Mobs attack XinJiang, PRC police station
- Thread starter bd popeye
- Start date
plawolf
Lieutenant General
Ha, I love how they try to paint a menacing police presence but the best they can come up with was 'police armed with rods'. Oh how oppressive and truly awful to see police with batons out on the streets! What has the world come to when police go around wielding batons! 
But if some of these terrorists did receive training in Pakistan, then it is only an intelligence failure that allowed them to strike, as if it was suspected at all that those men were there for terrorist training, then I am sure Pakistan would have absolutely no trouble at all in going in to round them up or take them out.
I think the PSB doesn't really take these guys as seriously as they should because of how primitive and relatively low impact their attacks are. But small fires can grow out of control if not dealt with quickly.
They may be a bunch of disorganised amateurs right now, but they can and will learn if left unchecked.
Besides, the tools and skills China would need to develop to monitor and track these guys are the same as would be needed to counter one of the big terrorist organisations if they ever target China, so even as live training and preparation it is something worth doing. And if they do it right, it will save lives.
But if some of these terrorists did receive training in Pakistan, then it is only an intelligence failure that allowed them to strike, as if it was suspected at all that those men were there for terrorist training, then I am sure Pakistan would have absolutely no trouble at all in going in to round them up or take them out.
I think the PSB doesn't really take these guys as seriously as they should because of how primitive and relatively low impact their attacks are. But small fires can grow out of control if not dealt with quickly.
They may be a bunch of disorganised amateurs right now, but they can and will learn if left unchecked.
Besides, the tools and skills China would need to develop to monitor and track these guys are the same as would be needed to counter one of the big terrorist organisations if they ever target China, so even as live training and preparation it is something worth doing. And if they do it right, it will save lives.
airsuperiority
Captain
Ha, I love how they try to paint a menacing police presence but the best they can come up with was 'police armed with rods'. Oh how oppressive and truly awful to see police with batons out on the streets! What has the world come to when police go around wielding batons!
But if some of these terrorists did receive training in Pakistan, then it is only an intelligence failure that allowed them to strike, as if it was suspected at all that those men were there for terrorist training, then I am sure Pakistan would have absolutely no trouble at all in going in to round them up or take them out.
I think the PSB doesn't really take these guys as seriously as they should because of how primitive and relatively low impact their attacks are. But small fires can grow out of control if not dealt with quickly.
They may be a bunch of disorganised amateurs right now, but they can and will learn if left unchecked.
Besides, the tools and skills China would need to develop to monitor and track these guys are the same as would be needed to counter one of the big terrorist organisations if they ever target China, so even as live training and preparation it is something worth doing. And if they do it right, it will save lives.
If Beijing is calling it out in international media, it's equivalent of telling Karachi to smarten up and know what to do.
plawolf
Lieutenant General
We should be careful not to make the same mistakes as western media often does by equating anything a Chinese official says as if it came directly from Beijing.
It is only the local authorities that have come out and mentioned Pakistan. And they may have their own reasons for doing so and Beijing had no idea they were going to make this announcement until after the fact.
We should only really take statements made at official foreign office press conferences as an direct message from Beijing and a statement of government policy. Even extremely high ranking officials like Grandpa Wen have said things in interviews which were just his own personal opinion and Chinese government policy has then gone on a different path.
It is only the local authorities that have come out and mentioned Pakistan. And they may have their own reasons for doing so and Beijing had no idea they were going to make this announcement until after the fact.
We should only really take statements made at official foreign office press conferences as an direct message from Beijing and a statement of government policy. Even extremely high ranking officials like Grandpa Wen have said things in interviews which were just his own personal opinion and Chinese government policy has then gone on a different path.
Red___Sword
Junior Member
While talking too much on international influence like "Pakistani govt's role in this" (as if, those border area is not a wild-wild-west even to Pakistani themselves) - adds problems rather than solve problems... I would like to emphasis more on internal aspect.
We the good people here have under-estimated the internal resentment of local Uigur people. To put things in perspective, and without a bad intention, let's say, we are familiar the kind of resentment that "go, get out of our country, don't take our jobs" that many "first world" country people possess of certain resentment, while they are not necessary to be any actual harmful conducts, they dislike certain social reality
- Local ethnic people, in this case Uigur people, while not ranting, possess various discontent of current social reality - espatially when abovementioned (by plawolf) cheerleaders aboard free-world countries paint the Utopia that "what's gonna be, when Han people get out our ways."
If CPC is good at something, spot threat (the REAL threat, not the surface threats) is one. Ethnic discontent with overall social discontent, could result something as bad as total civil war. It's not the matter of "who's winning?" if s**t hit the fan, (I bet you guys heard enough sterotype "we are winning, the war on terror!" at various countries) - China (not only CPC) as a whole, don't bother even getting started and stucked at this kind of situation.
"Stuck at *** situation" is the real threat to the country, not some nuts wielding knives and get themselves killed.
As such, good gentlemen, the "hammering on those who responsible" would never happen, before the local majority of ethnic people of what ever portion of China, feels joke the Utopia that overseas cheerleaders trying to sell them, on their day-to-day non-political-savvy-consciousness of the coherent understanding of "nation".
And no, if any member explicitly believes there are subtle wisdoms inside my above writings, I am not one of the propaganda department officers of CPC.
We the good people here have under-estimated the internal resentment of local Uigur people. To put things in perspective, and without a bad intention, let's say, we are familiar the kind of resentment that "go, get out of our country, don't take our jobs" that many "first world" country people possess of certain resentment, while they are not necessary to be any actual harmful conducts, they dislike certain social reality
- Local ethnic people, in this case Uigur people, while not ranting, possess various discontent of current social reality - espatially when abovementioned (by plawolf) cheerleaders aboard free-world countries paint the Utopia that "what's gonna be, when Han people get out our ways."
If CPC is good at something, spot threat (the REAL threat, not the surface threats) is one. Ethnic discontent with overall social discontent, could result something as bad as total civil war. It's not the matter of "who's winning?" if s**t hit the fan, (I bet you guys heard enough sterotype "we are winning, the war on terror!" at various countries) - China (not only CPC) as a whole, don't bother even getting started and stucked at this kind of situation.
"Stuck at *** situation" is the real threat to the country, not some nuts wielding knives and get themselves killed.
As such, good gentlemen, the "hammering on those who responsible" would never happen, before the local majority of ethnic people of what ever portion of China, feels joke the Utopia that overseas cheerleaders trying to sell them, on their day-to-day non-political-savvy-consciousness of the coherent understanding of "nation".
And no, if any member explicitly believes there are subtle wisdoms inside my above writings, I am not one of the propaganda department officers of CPC.
airsuperiority
Captain
I was going through some news regarding the attack, and it's quite a surprise in the sudden change of attitude towards the Chinese in the comments section. Instead of the usual Chinese bashings, suddenly they're all against the Muslims and supporting the Chinese in exterminating the extremists. It's like suddenly, just because China has been attacked too, China is one of the good guys too. Although their views of China ain't much better, as they see China = no BS, no mercy, crackdown gov't, but you can see how suddenly they view China as one of them.
It makes me wonder if it's because of a sudden perception of "common enemy", or because for the first time, they are able to recognize the situation/incident from the same standpoint, being "Muslim extremist terrorism in China"
This really made me wonder if alien shows up on Earth, will "everyone" suddenly all clinch to Russia, China, and US as their "big buddy" and support them, just because now there's a common enemy that no one has to hold back on in terms of moral and political correctness.
It makes me wonder if it's because of a sudden perception of "common enemy", or because for the first time, they are able to recognize the situation/incident from the same standpoint, being "Muslim extremist terrorism in China"
This really made me wonder if alien shows up on Earth, will "everyone" suddenly all clinch to Russia, China, and US as their "big buddy" and support them, just because now there's a common enemy that no one has to hold back on in terms of moral and political correctness.
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Where have you seen people not bashing china and supporting them against the attackers lul?
While I don't venture around many other forums, the way this news is being presented through most western mediums are not very sympathetic to the chinese nor the victims...
They seem to be using every trick in the book to not make the assailants look "guilty," putting in everything from kadeer's "oh their terrorism is justified due to these reasons.." to avoiding calling the people "terrorists" or even "attackers" instead using terms like "suspect" or just "men". On the bbc one could even be forgiven for thinking the police killed the terrorists hiding in the field with cold blood, almost out of spite or something jeezus.
One day I'm going to compile a list titled "how we can make china look bad in every news story (and what to do when they succeed, and when they are victims)". Very comprehensive it shall be.
While I don't venture around many other forums, the way this news is being presented through most western mediums are not very sympathetic to the chinese nor the victims...
They seem to be using every trick in the book to not make the assailants look "guilty," putting in everything from kadeer's "oh their terrorism is justified due to these reasons.." to avoiding calling the people "terrorists" or even "attackers" instead using terms like "suspect" or just "men". On the bbc one could even be forgiven for thinking the police killed the terrorists hiding in the field with cold blood, almost out of spite or something jeezus.
One day I'm going to compile a list titled "how we can make china look bad in every news story (and what to do when they succeed, and when they are victims)". Very comprehensive it shall be.
airsuperiority
Captain
Where have you seen people not bashing china and supporting them against the attackers lul?
While I don't venture around many other forums, the way this news is being presented through most western mediums are not very sympathetic to the chinese nor the victims...
They seem to be using every trick in the book to not make the assailants look "guilty," putting in everything from kadeer's "oh their terrorism is justified due to these reasons.." to avoiding calling the people "terrorists" or even "attackers" instead using terms like "suspect" or just "men". On the bbc one could even be forgiven for thinking the police killed the terrorists hiding in the field with cold blood, almost out of spite or something jeezus.
One day I'm going to compile a list titled "how we can make china look bad in every news story (and what to do when they succeed, and when they are victims)". Very comprehensive it shall be.
bladerunner
Banned Idiot
More viewpoints concerning the China USA Pakistan Triangle
Pakistan relying too much on China against U.S.
Pakistan's quick response to charges by China that militants involved in attacks in Xinjiang had trained on its soil shows the importance of its ties with Beijing, but it could be a mistake for Islamabad if it relies too much on China.
Pakistan immediately dispatched Lieutenant-General Ahmed Shuja Pasha, director general of Pakistan's powerful Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) spy agency, to Beijing after Islamic militants mounted a weekend attack that left 11 people dead in the western region of Xinjiang, according to media reports.
While the ISI declined to confirm the trip, Western diplomats and Pakistani analysts agreed that the attacks would likely be at the top of any agenda.
"We cannot allow Pakistani territory to be used for any activities against any neighbor, especially a close ally like China," said Mushahid Hussain Sayed, Chairman of the Pakistan-China Institute.
"There are strong ties between Pakistan and China, and we are cooperating closely on this issue."
Pasha's speedy trip was a clear sign of Pakistan's priorities.
The United States rarely gets that level of cooperation when it presses Pakistan on militants operating in its border regions. American officials for years said al Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden, killed in a U.S. raid in Pakistan in May, was hiding in the country.
Pakistan often responded with demands for specific, actionable intelligence before it would consider investigating.
Islamabad makes no secret of its preference for China over the United States as a military patron, calling Beijing an "all-weather" ally in contrast to Washington's supposedly fickle friendship.
The Pakistani foreign ministry issued a statement on Monday extending "full support" to China.
China is a major investor in predominantly Muslim Pakistan in areas such as telecommunications, ports and infrastructure. The countries are linked by a Chinese-built road pushed through Pakistan's northern mountains.
Trade with Pakistan is worth almost $9 billion a year for Pakistan, and China is its top arms supplier.
But all that matters only up to a point.
"Pakistan wants to play its own game by creating a front against the United States," said Hasan Askari-Rizvi, an independent political analyst.
"That will not happen. ... Now China has the same complaint which the United States has with Pakistan."
Barry Sautman, a professor at Hong Kong University of Science and Technology, said that China, like the United States, wanted Pakistan to help it control Islamist militancy. But it is frustrated by the chaotic nature of Pakistani governance, and its inability to control militants or militant-friendly elements in its security agencies.
"I would think the Chinese government would want to have its military and security apparatus liaise with Pakistani authorities to come up with a common plan, but the U.S. found that very difficult to do," he said. "And I am sure China will find it difficult as well."
Furthermore, Pakistan's usefulness to China is only in South Asia, where it competes with India. But China has global ambitions; it is unlikely to sacrifice them for an ally that has proved a headache to the United States, which has its own deep relationship with China.
"Being seen to take a provocative stand alongside Pakistan comes at a substantial cost, but provides little strategic benefit," Urmila Venugopalan, an independent analyst and former Asia editor at Jane's Intelligence Review, wrote last month in Foreign Policy.
China, he wrote, does not want to push India deeper into the American orbit.
"An escalation in Chinese aid to Pakistan would surely antagonize India, creating a new point of friction in the triangular relationship between Beijing, New Delhi, and Washington."
China has also shown no sign that it is willing to shoulder some of the financial burden of propping up Pakistan that the United States has so far been willing to bear.
In 2008, when Pakistan was suffering a balance of payments crisis and sought China's support to avoid turning to the International Monetary Fund and its restrictive terms on a $7.5 billion loan, China provided only $500 million.
China may share concerns over Pakistan's stability, Venugopalan writes, "but it has preferred to let Americans bear the costs of improving the country's security".
Pakistan's attempts to play China off the United States will ultimately backfire, analysts say. Although important, Pakistan is not the most important issue for Beijing and Washington.
"It is our misunderstanding if we think that we will team up with China if we are pressed by the United States," Rizvi said. "China and the United States have their own relations and they cannot compromise them for the sake of Pakistan."
(Additional reporting by Zeeshan Haider and Qasim Nauman in Islamabad, and Michael Martina in Beijing; Editing by Ron Popeski)