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Equation

Lieutenant General
Some links that might show that genuine Great Power Relationship between China and the US is possible now under Trump:

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The US sees itself as the holder of the balance of power in Asia and is likely to remain determined to protect its allies against Chinese overreach. The experience of the last century teaches us that unchecked expansionism and aggression only invites more bad behaviour. We will not repeat this mistake. China should realise that our reflexes in Asia are not driven by territorial ambitions. We conquered the Philippines, burned Japan and bombed to rubble part of Cambodia, Korea and Vietnam. but we healed our relations with all of those societies and have strong moral responsibilities to them.

Pretty condescending comments from those in the US who believes themselves as world righteousness AFTER committed to all of those acts of terror and than proclaiming that peace in Asia rest on their demanding "do as we say, not what we do".:rolleyes:
 

solarz

Brigadier
I suspect Trump with his Russian cohorts probably hacked the electoral system.
I still can't believe Trump can win and win so massively. Its rigged.

Its impossible for EVERY polling analysis groups to be wrong. I am more than certain Trump rigged the system. Trump even famously said if HE LOSE THE ELECTION THEN IT IS RIGGED - he was CERTAIN he will win before election even happen. Even people in his own campaign was doubtful of him winning.

Sooner or later this fraudulent election will be exposed. Along with the flawed electroal college system.

Not every poll is wrong. Just the ones the media report.

The American media is terrified of Trump, that's why they did everything they could to discredit him. They even went as far as to coronate Hillary days before the election. Were they really that certain, or did they try to influence public opinion?
 

siegecrossbow

General
Staff member
Super Moderator
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The Senate’s soon-to-be top Democrat told labor leaders Thursday that the Trans-Pacific Partnership, the trade deal at the center of President Obama’s “pivot” to strengthen ties with key Asian allies, will not be ratified by Congress.

That remark from Sen. Charles E. Schumer (D-N.Y.), who is expected to be the incoming Senate minority leader, came as good news to the AFL-CIO Executive Council, which met Thursday in Washington. Schumer relayed statements that Republican congressional leaders had made to him, according to an aide who confirmed the remarks.

Obama’s signature global trade deal had been on life support for months as both Democrats and Republicans campaigned against unfair trade policies ahead of the Nov. 8 election. And Donald Trump’s triumph in the presidential race cemented its fate.

“There is no way to fix the TPP,” Trump said in a June economic address. “We need bilateral trade deals. We do not need to enter into another massive international agreement that ties us up and binds us down.”

The deal never had much of a following among congressional Democrats to begin with. Only 28 of 188 House Democrats and 13 of 44 Senate Democrats supported granting Obama the authority to negotiate and finalize a deal last year. And Trump’s rise has decimated support for free trade among Republicans. A former U.S. trade representative, Sen. Rob Portman of Ohio, said he would oppose the TPP as he campaigned for reelection this year.

Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) said Wednesday there was no chance that the deal would pass during Obama’s final months in office. And he said it’s up to Trump whether any trade deal would move forward after that.

“I think the president-elect made it pretty clear he was not in favor of the current agreement,” McConnell said. “But he has the latitude because [congressional negotiating authority] is in place through the next administration to negotiate better deals, as I think he would put it, if he chooses to.”

House Speaker Paul D. Ryan (R-Wis.), who has supported past trade deals, has said that “the votes aren’t there” in the House to pass the TPP in its current version and that he has no plans to bring it to a vote in the House.

The news of the trade pact’s likely demise prompted disappointed reactions from some industry coalitions, which had hoped to access freer markets and a more level playing field with competitors overseas.

Among them were groups representing America’s farmers and ranchers. The TPP had promised to slash tariffs on U.S. agricultural goods in large markets such as Japan and Vietnam, as well as eliminate agricultural subsidies that gave competitors in the trade bloc an edge.

“We would have liked to get it done before the end of the year. The longer we delay, the more likely we lose market share in the Asia-Pacific since other countries are negotiating their own trade deals with nations in the region,” David Warner, the director of communications at the National Pork Producers Council, said in emailed comments. Warner said the TPP would exponentially increase pork exports, translating into more American jobs. “We certainly hope the TPP is not dead.”

Retailers had also largely thrown their support behind TPP, as it would have reduced tariffs on many goods that brands source from overseas. President Obama had even used Nike’s Oregon headquarters as backdrop for a speech defending his trade policy.

“On balance, [TPP] was viewed by our industry as a win for retailers and our consumers,” said David French, the National Retail Federation’s senior vice president of government relations, in an interview conducted Thursday prior to the news of Schumer’s statements.

French said he believes that the reduction in tariffs would have been passed on to consumers in the form of lower prices. Tariffs on footwear can be as high as 67.5 percent, according to the NRF, while apparel tariffs can be up to 32 percent.

In September, a coalition of retailers — including Walmart, JCPenney, Gap, Michael Kors and Dick’s Sporting Goods — sent letters to each member of Congress to urge them to support the TPP. The letter said the agreement would remove $2.8 million in duties on U.S. imports of clothes, shoes and travel items such as backpacks. They called it “once-in-a-generation opportunity to reduce costs and open new markets for U.S. brands and retailers.”
 

Blackstone

Brigadier
Too bad about TPP, it would have been a good trade pact, if it included China. On the other hand, to get China aboard also meant TPP couldn't be as "high standard," so it probably wouldn't have been doable anyway. Under Trump, TPP is dead, and I don't think that's in the long-term interests of America, to say nothing about rest of Asia and N/S Americas.

Trump will need to come up with something, because China's OBOR is gaining momentum, and with no American leadership in Asian and global trade, China will try and fill the role. Xi's Free Trade Area of the Asia-Pacific is now the only game in town, and if that too gains momentum, look for similar trade pacts for EMEA (Europe, Middle East, Africa) and Latin America/Caribbean too.

It's sad in the age of global connectivity, Washington is retreating and ceding the arena to Beijing. I say that because in the business of state, economics is security, and if US voluntarily gives up leadership, the force of nature will rush to fill the vacuum. Right now, China is that force. Why do we do this to ourselves? Frustrating!

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At a major conference on global trade in London this month, officials from the US were extolling the virtues and benefits of the Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP) and, in cahoots with officials from the European Union, the virtues and benefits of the Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership. The fact that these so-called mega-regional deals were a significant advance in the global trade agenda and that they would soon be implemented was the proverbial no-brainer.

I asked the American official if he could tell me whether any of the US presidential candidates had spoken out in favor of TPP. Hillary Clinton, it will be recalled, sensing which way the political winds were blowing, withdrew her support and indicated she would oppose it. This position was reinforced in the negotiations that ultimately culminated in Bernie Sanders’ endorsement. Donald Trump’s position on TPP, as well as on trade in general, is well known. I could not remember whether, out of the plethora of other Republicans who fell by the wayside, any had championed the pact. As I did not get an answer from the official, I presume the answer is no.

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I asked the EU official the same question regarding European national leaders over the transatlantic pact. The only possible candidate might have been David Cameron, but since the Brexit vote has happened, that pretty much put the final nail in the coffin of the transatlantic pact.

The deaths of both agreements are due to a number of causes. There are similarities between the two. However, since the TPP has far greater geopolitical significance, the focus will be on TPP.

Whereas in the old GATT days, trade was not a political issue, it has become quite dramatically so
First, a bit of perspective. Perhaps one of the greatest paradoxes of the 21st century is that while merchandise trade has boomed since the conclusion of the General Agreement on Tariffs and Trade (GATT) Uruguay Round in 1994 and the founding of the World Trade Organization in 1995, global trade governance is in a state of disarray.

This is due to the numerous new actors on the global trade stage, especially the mammoth new kid on the block, China. GATT was a comfy club of rich nations, directed by the so-called Quad – the US, Canada, the EU and Japan. To them the new players appeared as uppity interlopers. The attitude was that if they want to play on “our” stage, they will have to abide by “our” rules. This is leaving aside the fact that the countries of the Quad did not first establish rules and then become powerful and prosperous, but the reverse: first, plunder, then establish the rules to prevent new actors from doing the same.

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While in the old GATT days, trade was not a political issue, it has become quite dramatically so. In many countries, trade is deeply unpopular: in developing countries because of the fear of exploitation by the rich countries, in rich countries because of the fear of job losses due to cheap wages and “unfair” trade practices.

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Recommended by Forbes
The seeds of the anarchic state of global trade governance were sown at the chaotic WTO ministerial meeting held in Seattle in 1999. Following the failure of Seattle, a new WTO ministerial meeting was scheduled in Doha, Qatar in November 2001. Prognostics were that Doha too would fail. Then suddenly there emerged a “black swan” – an unexpected, unscripted event that has a huge impact – in the form of September 11, just a few weeks before the opening of the Doha summit. In order for the world to demonstrate solidarity, it could not be allowed to fail. So in November 2001, the WTO Doha Development Agenda was launched.

What has happened as the WTO agenda has dissolved is the growing fragmentation of the global trade regime
Its reprieve was short-lived. At the Cancun ministerial meetings in 2003, I became quickly convinced that it would not work. There was no dialogue, no reflection, no reaching out, as all the major players engaged in mercantilist rhetoric reflecting established positions. The fumbling attempts at erecting a facade of global trade governance by “rescuing” the Doha agenda convinced me by 2005 that it was dead. I wish I had been wrong.

Whereas I was in favor of the Doha agenda and remain convinced that ultimately the world needs a rules-based, but especially equitable and inclusive multilateral trade regime, I am against TPP (and the transatlantic pact). What has happened as the WTO agenda has dissolved is the growing fragmentation and geopoliticization of the global trade regime, mainly evidenced by a proliferation of preferential trade agreements, most starkly in the proposed mega-regionals.

I oppose TPP not for the same reasons as Sanders (or, now, Clinton), let alone Donald Trump – but because it is a huge error in seeking to boost peace and prosperity in the 21st century. To propose a Trans-Pacific Partnership by a priori excluding China, the world’s biggest trading power, the new kid on the block, though one with scars from a previous existence – the Opium War and all that – is wrong. President Barack Obama’s remark that “we can’t let countries like China write the rules of the global economy, we should write those rules”, and the amazingly incendiary remark of his defence secretary Ash Carter – “TPP is as important to me as another aircraft carrier” – add profound insult to deep injury.

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That is of course not the reason the TPP will die. Its demise is due to domestic political forces reflecting the strong anti-globalization backlash the world is currently experiencing. Thus with the pact failing for the wrong reasons, we end up with the worst of both worlds. Following the death of Doha and the deaths of both the trans-Pacific and transatlantic agreements, the world trade regime is in even more anarchic disarray. Bellicose anti-China rhetoric has further hampered the possibility of a climate of global cooperation rather than confrontation. TPP has made the situation worse, but its death will not solve anything.

The Pacific charter must be deliberated over, signed and issued before war breaks out
As the causes of the global trade disease are deep, there is an urgent imperative for solid and long-lasting remedies.

The Atlantic Charter signed by US president Franklin D. Roosevelt and British prime minister Winston Churchill in 1941 set out eight key principles aimed at ending decades of war, including economic war, across the Atlantic and thereby set the stage for the future. It worked brilliantly; there has been no Atlantic war since, but instead unprecedented peace and prosperity.

In recent decades, however, the world has moved from the Atlantic era to a Pacific era. As things currently stand on many fronts – for example, in the South China Sea – prospects are potentially alarming. The Atlantic Charter was signed and issued after war had already broken out. The Pacific charter must be deliberated over, signed and issued before war breaks out.

Given its economics, its history, its geographic location, its geostrategic importance and its intellectual and physical infrastructure, Hong Kong stands out as the obvious place for the Pacific charter to be discussed and issued.

But before that, let us note the passing of the TPP. May it RIP.
 

Air Force Brat

Brigadier
Super Moderator
One thing I haven't seen mentioned yet in this thread is the idea of some Californians for Cal to secede from US. I saw comment in the Dutch press. California has everything in industry, Silicon valley, agriculture, but also a huge debt and drought. The first Civil War ended a century and a half ago so lets try again? :eek:

let em go, nobody will mess that liberal overspending broke mess!
 

Air Force Brat

Brigadier
Super Moderator
Not every poll is wrong. Just the ones the media report.

The American media is terrified of Trump, that's why they did everything they could to discredit him. They even went as far as to coronate Hillary days before the election. Were they really that certain, or did they try to influence public opinion?

Well its obvious the left wing lame-stream media have been in the tank for Hillary. Helping her cheat by giving her debate, townhall questions, and promoting a liberal, self serving agenda.

The founders formed a Christian Nation where they could worship, they did NOT want a strong central govt, and gave the power to individual states and localities. They wrote a constitution that allowed Christians to worship without Govt interference and control.

The media is not terrified of Trump, they are scared "spitless" that they are going to lose their ability to dictate policy and promote socialism/communism, and the real working citizens of this nation have just given them their first "education", and kicked them to the curb as users and cheats.

We are sick of it, and have been a long time. Radical Islam has NO place in this Christian Nation, it has been identified by its own heinous brutality, particularly against women and children.

Its not helpful when people who are not native to our Faith and Ideals, attempt to vilify the many fine Americans who are loving and very tolerant toward those who of other religions. That kindness ends when those who have been the recipients of our many kindnesses, begin to dictate to the rest of us what we will do, and vilify those who wish to protect our culture and way of life!
 

Blackstone

Brigadier
let em go, nobody will mess that liberal overspending broke mess!
California serves as a warning and object lesson to everyone what happens in a one-party state. Democrats have been running roughshod over the place for 30 years. Part of me wouldn't mind if it washed into the Pacific Ocean in a gigantic earthquake, but California is my home, so I rather fix it then end it. It'll be a long, slow, and painful process to inject sanity back into California politics, but it's got to be done.
 
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