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AssassinsMace

Lieutenant General
Don't forget, Putin has met with Dalai Lama even after China protested it. Can you imagine China does the same to Russia by hosting a meeting with rebel Chechen leaders?

Don't be naive that Russia is buddy with China. Were you guys born just yesterday? :D

To say it nicely, the Russians are WARY of China. If China burns Russia is NOT going to lift a finger to help, as historically shown. In fact if opportunity arise they will rob while they can.

When did Putin meet the Dalai Lama?
 

Ultra

Junior Member
Wow that's strange I was sure I read about that. Now I can't find it on internet anywhere.
Maybe I slip through one of those dimensional crack and wakes up in an alternative parallel universve without knowing.

I mean, Cubs won the world series , trump is POTUS and macs are outselling PCs. The world is upside down!
 

Blitzo

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member
Don't forget, Putin has met with Dalai Lama even after China protested it. Can you imagine China does the same to Russia by hosting a meeting with rebel Chechen leaders?

Don't be naive that Russia is buddy with China. Were you guys born just yesterday? :D

To say it nicely, the Russians are WARY of China. If China burns Russia is NOT going to lift a finger to help, as historically shown. In fact if opportunity arise they will rob while they can.

Russia is wary of China yes, but Russia is far more wary of the US.
The long term adversary and threat to Russian security will remain the US even a Trump presidency whether it is one term or two. The institutional foundations of the US security and military stance to Russia in Europe and the Middle East present a far greater threat to Russia than anything China has ever done in the last two decades.


So please, don't patronize us, and try to look at the big picture.

Any suggestions that a Trump presidency could somehow mean Russia and the US will work together "against" China is ignoring the fundamental strategic interests of all three nations and the ways in which they overlap and bump heads with each other.
Putting it simply, during the Cold War the USSR was an existential threat to both China and the US. Only political and ideological differences existed between China and the US at that time in the Cold War, that were broken down to allow the two nations to jointly work against the USSR, but the important prerequisite was that the USSR was the big enemy of both China and the US.

Simply put "the enemy of my enemy is my friend".

However, now in this day and age, not only is China's relationship with Russia very strong (in fact China is probably the only major power that has maintained a positive and productive relationship with Russia on multiple high levels over the last few years since Russia annexed Crimea), but more importantly China is not a long term existential threat to Russia in the same way that the US is to Russia, even during and after a Trump presidency. This is because no one expects the institutional strategic interests of the US in Europe to waver over the long term, including over the course of a Trump presidency.

For Russia to join the US against China, would mean that China would have to be a threatening, existential enemy of Russia to begin with, and Russia must also have no meaningful strategic or existential conflict with the US as well for a US-Russian alliance to work.

But neither of those prospects exist or look to exist in the long term future. So any talk of Russia and the US banding together "against" China simply doesn't pass the logic test, unless we make some immensely unlikely predictions, including Russia suddenly viewing China as a primary existential threat (rather than an ally as they currently are) and including Russia believing that the US is not interested in threatening their core interests (which would require reversals on economic sanctions, NATO deployments, missile shield, middle east, and countering general Russian influence in Europe, etc).


The more likely scenario is that the US will undergo a mild thawing of relations with Russia under Trump, but not to the detriment of their relationship with China, and certainly not with the prospect of banding together with the US against China.

I write all this not because anyone believes Russia and China are best buddies, but rather because I think we all understand what real politik are, and we all understand the long term interests of the respective nations in question and the requirements for any sort of "two vs one" alignment to occur, which simply doesn't exist and won't look to exist any time soon to support PanAsian's interesting but unlikely suggestion.
 

B.I.B.

Captain
When did Putin meet the Dalai Lama?

#1661 AssassinsMace, Today at 3:46 AM

Wow that's strange I was sure I read about that. Now I can't find it on internet anywhere.


and macs are outselling PCs. The world is upside down!

I saw an article of the Dali Lama on a trip to Moscow earlier this year, but no mention of him actually meeting Putin

"As the 14th Dalai Lama bids farewell to Moscow, he urged U.S. administration to alter its disastrous foreign policies vis-à-vis Syrian 5-year rebellion which reached a deadly impasse.

The Tibetan Buddhist spiritual leader, who has himself been in exile for 56 years, praised Russian President in particular for waging a relentless crusade against diabolical terrorists and exhorted him to continue his divine mission but insisted it is not a 'long-term solution' to end Syrian crisis.

His remarks came at Moscow's Bolshoi Theatre, where he inaugurated the 2nd Dalai Lama international festival dubbed "Tibet: Traditions, Art, Philosophy and Peace”.

Meanwhile, Chinese Prime Minister Li Keqiang called off a bilateral meeting with his Russian counterpart which was due this week in protest against Dalai Lama's visit to Moscow.

"I believe the crux of today’s Middle-East problem is laid in Obama administration policies and the Saudi interference in Syrian crisis. When Saudi clerics fallaciously claim they represent Islam and they side with cutthroats in Syria; thus they give the radical groups a plausible excuse for their heinous crimes against innocent civilians,” AFP quoted the exiled Tibetan spiritual leader as saying.

It is for the first time that the octogenarian spiritual leader and a Nobel Peace Prize laureate, took the unprecedented step by explicitly criticizing United States and her oil-rich Saudi allies for fomenting sectarian bloodshed in Middle-East by invariably supporting hard-line militants, e.g. ISIS and al-Nusra Front.

Dalai Lama added by saying that it would be totally inane and hypocritical of Saudis to condemn recent terrorist attacks in European capitals while funneling weapons and billions of dollars to the very terrorists who perpetrated Charlie Hebdo carnage.

"…for several times I importuned President Obmam to end his catastrophic support for Saudis and their terrorist proxies in the Middle-East but my appeals fell on deaf ears,” said world’s most famous exile.

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delft

Brigadier
When did Putin meet the Dalai Lama?

#1661 AssassinsMace, Today at 3:46 AM

......................................

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See
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I tend to agree with this comment:
A440

November 15, 2015

This site carries articles that are, at best, fabrications and unsubstantiated. One case in point:

awdnews.com/top-news/russian-president-to-turkish-ambassador-tell-your-dictator-president-he-can-go-to-hell-along-with-his-isis-terrorists,-i-will-make-syria-a-big-stalingrad-for-him
 

Air Force Brat

Brigadier
Super Moderator
Russia is wary of China yes, but Russia is far more wary of the US.
The long term adversary and threat to Russian security will remain the US even a Trump presidency whether it is one term or two. The institutional foundations of the US security and military stance to Russia in Europe and the Middle East present a far greater threat to Russia than anything China has ever done in the last two decades.


So please, don't patronize us, and try to look at the big picture.

Any suggestions that a Trump presidency could somehow mean Russia and the US will work together "against" China is ignoring the fundamental strategic interests of all three nations and the ways in which they overlap and bump heads with each other.
Putting it simply, during the Cold War the USSR was an existential threat to both China and the US. Only political and ideological differences existed between China and the US at that time in the Cold War, that were broken down to allow the two nations to jointly work against the USSR, but the important prerequisite was that the USSR was the big enemy of both China and the US.

Simply put "the enemy of my enemy is my friend".

However, now in this day and age, not only is China's relationship with Russia very strong (in fact China is probably the only major power that has maintained a positive and productive relationship with Russia on multiple high levels over the last few years since Russia annexed Crimea), but more importantly China is not a long term existential threat to Russia in the same way that the US is to Russia, even during and after a Trump presidency. This is because no one expects the institutional strategic interests of the US in Europe to waver over the long term, including over the course of a Trump presidency.

For Russia to join the US against China, would mean that China would have to be a threatening, existential enemy of Russia to begin with, and Russia must also have no meaningful strategic or existential conflict with the US as well for a US-Russian alliance to work.

But neither of those prospects exist or look to exist in the long term future. So any talk of Russia and the US banding together "against" China simply doesn't pass the logic test, unless we make some immensely unlikely predictions, including Russia suddenly viewing China as a primary existential threat (rather than an ally as they currently are) and including Russia believing that the US is not interested in threatening their core interests (which would require reversals on economic sanctions, NATO deployments, missile shield, middle east, and countering general Russian influence in Europe, etc).


The more likely scenario is that the US will undergo a mild thawing of relations with Russia under Trump, but not to the detriment of their relationship with China, and certainly not with the prospect of banding together with the US against China.

I write all this not because anyone believes Russia and China are best buddies, but rather because I think we all understand what real politik are, and we all understand the long term interests of the respective nations in question and the requirements for any sort of "two vs one" alignment to occur, which simply doesn't exist and won't look to exist any time soon to support PanAsian's interesting but unlikely suggestion.

One of your most succinct posts ever Blitzo, I would add that Trump will try to "warm things up with Putin" in the same way the George W Bush did. It serves no ones best interest for the three world super-powers to be involved in a Jr. High shoving match.

In the same way, Trump will meet with Mr. Xi and attempt to forge a much more respectful relationship, and no doubt Mr. Duterte will also be shown a little more respect for his attempt to clean up the drug problem in the Phillipines.

Barack Hussein Obama is one of the most disrespectful, condescending individuals the world has ever seen, and Hillary is his equal. They point fingers at everybody, never realizing that they have both lived a life of privledge that neither one earned or appreciated.

Peace and Good relations start with mutual respect, Mr. Trump is able to be respectful and personable. He has been given many advantages, but at least he realizes that, and I do believe he has great love for his country, and the people who have elected him as their president. We shall see as Jeff Head is wont to say?
 

B.I.B.

Captain
Peace and Good relations start with mutual respect, Mr. Trump is able to be respectful and personable. He has been given many advantages, but at least he realizes that, and I do believe he has great love for his country, and the people who have elected him as their president. We shall see as Jeff Head is wont to say?

I saw it in his face when he realized the big responsibilities placed upon his shoulders as he walked towards the podium on Wednesday morning to give his election victory speech.
 

B.I.B.

Captain
Simple: Trump will not be able to deliver on most of his promises; he will have a rude awakening on January 20 about exactly how entrenched and powerful the Washington elite really is. He most importantly will not be able to bring back manufacturing jobs, whether it's from China or some other developing country; People like Jim Rickards and Peter Schiff have it right on when they predict impending dollar crisis/collapse, for this very reason.

He just has to be seen that he is trying. He can make a start by improving the infrastructure in the neglected rust belt states and offering very low company tax rates and concessions to encourage companies to move into the area.
 

taxiya

Brigadier
Registered Member
Don't forget, Putin has met with Dalai Lama even after China protested it. Can you imagine China does the same to Russia by hosting a meeting with rebel Chechen leaders?

Don't be naive that Russia is buddy with China. Were you guys born just yesterday? :D

To say it nicely, the Russians are WARY of China. If China burns Russia is NOT going to lift a finger to help, as historically shown. In fact if opportunity arise they will rob while they can.

I am old enough to experience the tense atmosphere when the Sino-Vietnamese boarder war broke out in 1979 thinking the Soviets might bomb Beijing. How old were you then? ;) I don't intend to be combative, but I think being cynical is not mature either.

My saying "Question is for what purpose?" is just that. It does not mean I am a Russophie. There must be a purpose for everything. What is the purpose for Russia to gang-up with US against China at this moment? Not saying it will never happen, but now for what? I am very well aware of the Soviet-China "honeymoon" in the 1950s and the bitterness from 1960s to early 1990s, also aware of the Sino-American rivalry from 1950 to 1970s, the "honeymoon" up to 1980s. I won't underestimate the ambition, greediness or need (for collaboration) of anyone, Russian or American, so on and so on.
 
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