military Shipbuilding in general and the question: carrier or not a carrier?


Anlsvrthng

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There can be no doubt this hull is a warship. The clinching factor isn’t the size of the supposed engineering space or how it is being assembled. There can be a number of reasons why the Chinese choose to build the engineering space the way they’ve done. The clinching factor is the side wall of the hull is so thick (around 7 meters) it must contain a fairly deep underwater protection system. No merchant double hull is going to consume 7 meters of otherwise revenue making Space. No merchant ship would need such deep compartments on either side of the central hull cavity.
By Archimedes this equation is true only if the density of the transported goods is 1000 kg/cubic meter or smaller.

For example if the ship designed for iron ore (density 2.5kg/liter) then at least 60% of the average ship cross section must be air.

Considering that the material of machines is usually iron, and they are quite dense ,this big ,uninterrupted space still doesn't make sense for a warship, unless it is just a step in the construction process.
 
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Peter2018

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It looks like they are building a 100,000 tonnes ship. They need 6 of these just to balance against the main adversary.
 

Tam

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By Archimedes this equation is true only if the density of the transported goods is 1000 kg/cubic meter or smaller.

For example if the ship designed for iron ore (density 2.5kg/liter) then at least 60% of the average ship cross section must be air.

Considering that the material of machines is usually iron, and they are quite dense ,this big ,uninterrupted space still doesn't make sense for a warship, unless it is just a step in the construction process.
You obviously have never seen how a warship bulkhead looks before.

These are bulk carrier bulkheads. Bulk carriers take in water to serve as a ballast.

2000px-Bulk_carrier_midship_section_en.svg.png d2b830c1d4f113a0fe2b590433b793b2.jpg


These don't have anti torpedo belts.

These are examples of warship bulkheads. The last one shows the bulkhead when it gets hit by a torpedo or antiship missile. This is what you call an anti torpedo bulkhead. Merchant ships don't have this multi compartmentalized bulkhead on the side. People should know what the name of this ship below.


aTRx6A1.gif proteccion6.gif NJ_MB.jpg images (5).jpeg
 

Anlsvrthng

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You obviously have never seen how a warship bulkhead looks before.

These are bulk carrier bulkheads. Bulk carriers take in water to serve as a ballast.




These don't have anti torpedo belts.

These are examples of warship bulkheads. The last one shows the bulkhead when it gets hit by a torpedo or antiship missile. This is what you call an anti torpedo bulkhead. Merchant ships don't have this multi compartmentalized bulkhead on the side. People should know what the name of this ship below.
What is your point ?
Archimedes doesn't relevant to the ship design ?

There is no more anti torpedo bulkhead, there is no chance to protect the internals of the ship from a modern missile,s and there is small chance to get a torpedo ( and that will detonate bellow, not on the side )


The only way make a warship with any survival chance is to divide the internals of it by bulkheads , to the smallest possible dimensions.
 

taxiya

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What is going on in this thread? Is there anyone who still vehemently assert that the ship under construction in the posted photos is NOT a military ship? let alone being Aircraft Carrier? If so, I suggest the person make a bet and promise to quit this forum if proven wrong in the coming month.
 

Deino

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Due to the IMO too far-off topic posts - we are barely still within the Type 003 issue - I moved all these posts to this thread:

Deino
 

Anlsvrthng

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What is going on in this thread? Is there anyone who still vehemently assert that the ship under construction in the posted photos is NOT a military ship? let alone being Aircraft Carrier? If so, I suggest the person make a bet and promise to quit this forum if proven wrong in the coming month.
I make observations about the ship, and Tam every time try to say that is not a civilian ship.

Trouble is I haven't said that, only few hundred post ago : )
 

Deino

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Please don't get me wrong, but this topic has gone to far away from a specific Type 003 carrier thread, which should be most of all related to news, pictures and indeed discussion ... but IMO - and even if not might agree - it is now worth a dedicated own thread.
 

Tam

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What is your point ?
Archimedes doesn't relevant to the ship design ?

There is no more anti torpedo bulkhead, there is no chance to protect the internals of the ship from a modern missile,s and there is small chance to get a torpedo ( and that will detonate bellow, not on the side )


The only way make a warship with any survival chance is to divide the internals of it by bulkheads , to the smallest possible dimensions.

Not an antitorpedo bulkhead? I am not going to post the same photos of 003 any longer since its been posted again and again, but those bulkheads are clearly anti-torpedo. No chance to protect the internals of a ship from modern missile, that's also nonsense, as bulkheads have shown they can absorb multiple antiship missile hits, including smaller merchant vessels and old warships that are used for live target practice. The ships do not sink in one hit and can take hits consecutively.

Internal design of the 003 appears based on tried and true practice with all warship designs that goes back to the Dreadnought era prior to WW1. Nothing out of the ordinary, its a very textbook classic design of a warship. It almost looks like a battleship to me. and carriers grew out from battleship hull designs. Carriers are designed for a lot of impact survivability from antiship missiles, and will take consecutive hits. Of course, when it comes to huge supersonic and hypersonic missiles like Granit or Zircon or DF-17 it becomes a different matter. But at least you are still looking to survive against subsonic missiles like Harpoon to Tomahawk sized missiles. Antiship missiles are not armor piercing, and the supersonic ones only go as far as Semi-AP. They have to rely on shaped charges to achieve penetration, which in turn is defeated by spaced armor, as in bulkheads.
 

Anlsvrthng

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Not an antitorpedo bulkhead? I am not going to post the same photos of 003 any longer since its been posted again and again, but those bulkheads are clearly anti-torpedo. No chance to protect the internals of a ship from modern missile, that's also nonsense, as bulkheads have shown they can absorb multiple antiship missile hits, including smaller merchant vessels and old warships that are used for live target practice. The ships do not sink in one hit and can take hits consecutively.

Internal design of the 003 appears based on tried and true practice with all warship designs that goes back to the Dreadnought era prior to WW1. Nothing out of the ordinary, its a very textbook classic design of a warship. It almost looks like a battleship to me. and carriers grew out from battleship hull designs. Carriers are designed for a lot of impact survivability from antiship missiles, and will take consecutive hits. Of course, when it comes to huge supersonic and hypersonic missiles like Granit or Zircon or DF-17 it becomes a different matter. But at least you are still looking to survive against subsonic missiles like Harpoon to Tomahawk sized missiles. Antiship missiles are not armor piercing, and the supersonic ones only go as far as Semi-AP. They have to rely on shaped charges to achieve penetration, which in turn is defeated by spaced armor, as in bulkheads.
I think you underestimate the penetration capability of supersonic missiles.

The tomahawk has a penetration capability of 50mm steel.
The p-800 has 2000 mm penetration deep.

A tomahawk missile penetrating swallow ,and detonating in the side, so reinforcing it makes sens.


The P-800 capable to penetrate as deep as a 16" mark 7 gun from ballistic trajectory, with similar speed characteristic, and higher mass ,against a target that lack any reinforcement.

It will penetrate / destroy somewhere between 10000-30000 cubic meter of space, so if a 100k carrier has 200k reserve buoyancy then 3-6 will sink a 100k ship regardless of bulkheads.


Of course tomahawk needs way more for the same effect : )

Of course the water/ fuel storage has to be positioned somewhere, and the berthing can be on the perimeter as well, and those improve the survivalability of the ship, but these design characteristic just a common sense arrangement of spaces, without any extra resources for useless protection.

The fuel /water tanks could looks like the torpedo protection, but it is just storage.


For me most probable explanation of the current shape of the ship is the manufacturing process ,and to be able to align the modules with little effort.
 

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