military Shipbuilding in general and the question: carrier or not a carrier?


Anlsvrthng

Senior Member
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The horizontal supporting bars still there ,for long time now.

They should install the internal separation walls, that makes the structure rigid enough to support its own weight.

That doesn't require anything, and the installation will be done afterwards anyway.


If the structure will be rigid after the installation of the upper deck then it is not a warship grade structure.

And I can't see temporary support bars on the QE/Ford during building phases on any video.

Both of them was rigid during all construction step, and it is the normal considering they are warships.
 

Peter2018

Junior Member
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So why does it take so long to construct the first type 002? One type 075 was built from scratch far faster than this one. The type 002 is more than twice as big and more complex than the type 075 but it couldn't explain the far longer construction time.
It seems like they are building 200,000 tonnes container ships faster. The likely reason is that the pictures are faked. They are actually building some other CVs elsewhere.
 

Tam

Major
Registered Member
So why does it take so long to construct the first type 002? One type 075 was built from scratch far faster than this one. The type 002 is more than twice as big and more complex than the type 075 but it couldn't explain the far longer construction time.
I didn't find it taking that long. It was quite quick. It was the trials that look long but they are still within normal boundaries given the Liaoning. At some point I don't see the trials having to do with the shipyard or the ship being able to operate and run on its own steam. Its all about planes taking off and landing from it. That's more from the PLA Navy's trials on the ship's usability, not about its construction. The ship isn't and hasn't returned to the dock for repairs, and all the attention being given lately is cosmetic.

As far as its goes, the ship already has accomplished its primary mission, which is to prove that China can build a domestic aircraft carrier. Once that is done all the ship has to face is the rest of its life. In way its a bit anti-climatic, as the ship has already passed and transcended its main historical significance. The PLAN doesn't look to rush it any more and they can take all their time with it. In my view the ship is waiting for its J-15s so no rush there.

Hudong Zhonghua, builder of the 071 and 075, has already shown through its LNG work, that its one of the top ship builders in the world. HDZ and Jiangnan Shipyards have shown themselves to be the top shipbuilders in China, while Dalian and CSIC were corruption ridden. Despite this, Dalian did the 002 carrier in respectable time and maybe past its troubles.
 
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Anlsvrthng

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A new image of the first Type 003 aircraft carrier under construction.

Are these already segments of the deck?

(Image via @正版河图 from Weibo)

View attachment 55233
Compare the two picture.

Lot of support bar on the structure in the Chinese yard, 0 on the Ford building at the same phase.

The QE hasn't got any as well.

Now, this needed because without the top deck the structure is not rigid, and can deformate .

Now, it is a warship, so has to withstand an explosion under the kneel (within limits) .

There should be many walls in the structure as well.

That structure looks like the hull of a bulk carrier , or oil tanker, not a military ship.

Of course it can be same new structure, half finished and so on, but it would need only sheet metal to be rigid, without the support bars.
temp carrier.jpg
 

Orthan

Junior Member
Lot of support bar on the structure in the Chinese yard, 0 on the Ford building at the same phase.

The QE hasn't got any as well.
Well, when the soviets were building the ulyanovsk, they also used at least one support bar. Does this mean that it wasnt military grade ?

I think you clearly missed the irony?! ;)
Im no naval expert. As long as someone with knowledge doesnt dispute what he says, il believe it. He presents some evidence, you know.
 

lcloo

Junior Member
It is simply a different approach of building method. Compare with traditional building method, modular building needs far greater precision in all dimensions, errors of few millimetre may be allowed but errors in centimetres can ruin in big time when two large super modules are mated together as every edges and corners of the two modules must match each other millimetre by millimetre before proper welding took place.

Building a ship from keel upwards is far more easy but time consuming, and this method has greater tolerance for errors which can be rectified by mending or cutting away a few inches of unwanted steel plates. The hulls are normally supported by walls aka bulkhead instead of beam, as the ship becomes larger in progress.

Temporary use of beams and pillars are there to prevent deformation take place, this is critical especially you do not want a deformation of even just a few millimetres. This does not mean Chinese ships do not have bulkheads to support the hull as in western ships, they know better than anyone else since ship bulkhead was a Chinese invention hundreds of years ago. Or you can say it is simply an over-engineering in methods of building a ship.
 
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Anlsvrthng

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It is simply a different approach of building method. Compare with traditional building method, modular building needs far greater precision in all dimensions, errors of few millimetre may be allowed but errors in centimetres can ruin in big time when two large super modules are mated together as every edges and corners of the two modules must match each other millimetre by millimetre before proper welding took place.

Building a ship from keel upwards is far more easy but time consuming, and this method has greater tolerance for errors which can be rectified by mending or cutting away a few inches of unwanted steel plates. The hulls are normally supported by walls aka bulkhead instead of beam, as the ship becomes larger in progress.

Temporary use of beams and pillars are there to prevent deformation take place, this is critical especially you do not want a deformation of even just a few millimetres. This does not mean Chinese ships do not have bulkheads to support the hull as in western ships, they know better than anyone else since ship bulkhead was a Chinese invention hundreds of years ago. Or you can say it is simply an over-engineering in methods of building a ship.

It is the most plausible explanation .

I checked the past imagery of the construction of bulk carriers / container ships .
It was fairly rare to use support bars during the constitution.
aaaa1.jpg

And there is no support bar on the bulk carrier on the right.
Quite rare to see this kind of bars on the half finished ships.

But if we accept it as explanation then the manufacturing process is in an early stage.

If there is enough bulkhead then they would remove the bars as soon as possible. Those bars blocking the access of the cranes.

Oh ,and the google earth updated the Shanghai factory, means we have reliable measuring opportunity now : ) .

Including a half finished destroyer, that showing similar support structures.
destroyer.jpg
 

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