Ladakh Flash Point

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ougoah

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Indians indeed increased patrols into disputed area (something Jai Hinds hate admitting now) which pushed China into sending PLA into disputed area not to mirror India's patrols but to occupy parts of it and escalate the confrontation until India agrees to terms of disengagement - India leaving dispute and ceasing patrol activity within it. China only achieved this result with Pangong lake points.

While Pangong lake is good now and empty of Indian army patrols for good, it remains to be seen how the Indians will act in other parts where they are still present within disputed land. China not acting seems to suggest the current form of this standoff is acceptable and superior to the condition this stretch was in prior to dialogue and increased Indian patrols. With dialogue, the opportunities for command failure and escalation is relatively low. Indians won't get what they want - remaining 20% of historic dispute because China now considers it an adversarial nation for good reason. Supreme irony that better diplomacy and friendly behaviour would have given both an opportunity to settle the remaining 20% for good but India had Modi, the half man, Hitler wannabe, perverted creep, high school drop out street vendor :p

How a nation can purposefully elect such a dismal man of such pathetic intellectual ability really reveals a lot about the collective political intelligence of that nation. Sure "at least they have elections"... lololol.
 

twineedle

Junior Member
Registered Member
Indians indeed increased patrols into disputed area (something Jai Hinds hate admitting now) which pushed China into sending PLA into disputed area not to mirror India's patrols but to occupy parts of it and escalate the confrontation until India agrees to terms of disengagement - India leaving dispute and ceasing patrol activity within it. China only achieved this result with Pangong lake points.

While Pangong lake is good now and empty of Indian army patrols for good, it remains to be seen how the Indians will act in other parts where they are still present within disputed land. China not acting seems to suggest the current form of this standoff is acceptable and superior to the condition this stretch was in prior to dialogue and increased Indian patrols. With dialogue, the opportunities for command failure and escalation is relatively low. Indians won't get what they want - remaining 20% of historic dispute because China now considers it an adversarial nation for good reason. Supreme irony that better diplomacy and friendly behaviour would have given both an opportunity to settle the remaining 20% for good but India had Modi, the half man, Hitler wannabe, perverted creep, high school drop out street vendor :p

How a nation can purposefully elect such a dismal man of such pathetic intellectual ability really reveals a lot about the collective political intelligence of that nation. Sure "at least they have elections"... lololol.
The first major standoff at Depsang happened under Manmohan Singh. And under Modi, Indo-Sino relations were actually pretty good until last year. Even after Doklam, Modi and Xi held two informal meetings.

The rest has already been discussed. In the areas you are referring to, China had been building infrastructure for decades. For example, in Raki Nallah and jeevan Nallah, China had roads leading to its claim line even before 2010. Even if Indian patrols reached certain areas beyond the LAC between those two lines, That area was always dominated by China due to superior infrastructure(until recently) and geographical hallenges. For example, Indian patrols can only go on foot past the bottleneck, and in Pangong, finger 4 acts as a natural barrier and prevents connectivity with the motorable road from Lukung, while China has a road from Sirjiap(well east of finger 8) to foxhole point, on the eastern side of the finger, which is basically a flat beach. The western part is dominated by the ridge. Col. Dinny, who has led patrols there, has explained all of this, but apparently he is a bhakt.

Anyway, this standoff was not just about the areas between the red and pink lines in the map you posted a while back, although China probably did want to further secure its presence in the area. It was about China trying to shift the lac westward to match its historic claim. Otherwise why was China initially demanding India vacate Dhan Singh Thapa as a condition for disengagement, and why did the Chinese Foreign ministry claim the entire Galwan Valley is part of China? The same situation applies in Demchok/Chumar where China claims the entire sector. China's initial conditions for Pangong Tso were in no way met, the reason why disengagement on Pangong took so long was because India refused China's conditions until they were revised to what was suitable to India.

And it wasn't just India patrolling China-claimed territory. PLA patrolled well into areas claimed by India. For example Gen. Sharma clearly said that just like India would patrol to its pps, PLA would patrol to the Track Junction and Burtse, well sithin Indian claimed territory. Now both sides are blocking each other at the bottleneck.
 
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twineedle

Junior Member
Registered Member
Oops. This guy just became "fake news".
Adding Depsang to the post-Modi party list.

Anyways...
Gen. Sharma never said Depsang wasn't a legacy issue. He said that PLA would block Indian patrols multiple times, but those face offs would get resolved at the local commander level and would later be attempted again. If you read his full article, Gen. Sharma specifically says that just like India would patrol the pps, PLA would regularly patrol up to Burtse and Track Junction, well over 10 km in Inidna territory. He also clearly says that there is a "mutual block" where both sides are preventing each other from crossing the bottleneck. In addition he clearly states that China has been denied its claim line in many sectors, such as Depsang/SSN, Galwan and Demchok/Chumar. China tried to shift the LAC in all those areas to match its claim lines but failed. He also disagrees with the likes of Shukla and Sawhney.

The reason 2013 was so significant was because PLA had set up camp very close to Burtse and did not move back until India agreed to dismantle structures in Chumar.

Here is the full article
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Once again, the ground reality is, China tried to shift the LAC westwards to match its historic perceptions/claims in areas like SSN and Galwan but failed. The LAC is in the same place it has been for decades, and even in Depsang, both sides are mutally blocking each other.
 
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Xizor

Captain
Registered Member
The first major standoff at Depsang happened under Manmohan Singh. And under Modi, Indo-Sino relations were actually pretty good until last year. Even after Doklam, Modi and Xi held two informal meetings.

The rest has already been discussed. In the areas you are referring to, China had been building infrastructure for decades. For example, in Raki Nallah and jeevan Nallah, China had roads leading to its claim line even before 2010. Even if Indian patrols reached certain areas beyond the LAC between those two lines, That area was always dominated by China due to superior infrastructure(until recently) and geographical hallenges. For example, Indian patrols can only go on foot past the bottleneck, and in Pangong, finger 4 acts as a natural barrier and prevents connectivity with the motorable road from Lukung, while China has a road from Sirjiap(well east of finger 8) to foxhole point, on the eastern side of the finger, which is basically a flat beach. The western part is dominated by the ridge. Col. Dinny, who has led patrols there, has explained all of this, but apparently he is a bhakt.

Anyway, this standoff was not just about the areas between the red and pink lines in the map you posted a while back, although China probably did want to further secure its presence in the area. It was about China trying to shift the lac westward to match its historic claim. Otherwise why was China initially demanding India vacate Dhan Singh Thapa as a condition for disengagement, and why did the Chinese Foreign ministry claim the entire Galwan Valley is part of China? The same situation applies in Demchok/Chumar where China claims the entire sector.

And it wasn't just India patrolling China-claimed territory. PLA patrolled well into areas claimed by India. For example Gen. Sharma clearly said that just like India would patrol to its pps, PLA would patrol to the Track Junction and Burtse, well sithin Indian claimed territory. Now both sides are blocking each other at the bottleneck.
Next time you write essays, make sure you denote places/ location properly.

You were trying to shoehorn Col. Dinny for your replies regarding multiple regions while you could've just specified Pangong Tso clearly. Let's be clear about that.

Regarding Depsang

It now seems, after the bold rebuttal by an Indian itself, Depsang seems to have been another case of China pushing and solidifying the positions,inching closer to the claim lines.
 
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