Ladakh Flash Point

lgnxz · Mar 7, 2021

Also the damming happened after the clash, isn't it? how's this even closely relevant to the very early start of your escalation in April?

What's the india's justification for entering the estuary and starting the buildup in early April? Hindsight 20/20 we do have the answer, which is trying to enter the pp14, which then finally China started to make its moves. Also notice how China merely send you protests when you do the buildup on the estuary, action from China happened after you first entering the pp14, which is on May. How's this China's fault then for the whole thing to happened?

Even then, after you cross the LAC in May, both sides reach an agreement on June 6 to deescalate. Why did you go into the pp14 AGAIN on June 15? Is this not a clear indication of who's really trying to change the status quo?

Finally, when you lost the June 15 clash, proven beyond doubt with the satellite images, casualities+hostages, and how you blockade yourself out of the area, where does this narrative of china trying to enter galwan mouth come from? Your imagination in trying to claim victory when there's none?

These simple questions put multiple holes into your narrative, think it through and answer them before you start making up another lies, ok?

twineedle · Mar 7, 2021

Once again, where did Brig RJS specifically say pp14 was? He simply says it was on the Indian side(which it is). Even the google line is to the east of the bend/pp14(though not 1 km)
If RJS' testimony is so accurate, why is everyone here discrediting Col Dinny's interiew? He also conducted patrols in ladakh(on Pangong lake) and much more recently.)

Ajai Shukla and a few others are simply twisting Brig RJS's words to show the lac several km from where India has always said it was, and from where literally every other source says, becasue the Brigadier simply says pp14 is behind the lac.

The fact that members here have to rely on vague statements in Ajai Shukla articles to claim India lost territory when Satellite imagery shows return to status quo ante shows how desperate they are to claim a Chinese victory

Xizor · Mar 7, 2021

twineedle said:
And it is interesting that Brig RJS' testimny is supposed to be completely true, but Col. Dinny, who recently patrolled Pangong, is lying or conducting information warfare by saying Indian troops never patrolled past f3 under his command.

And Shiv Aroor, Nitin Gokhale, etc. are NOT croneis _ they are respected journalists who have provided factual coverage on the standoff and talk to ACTUAL gov. sources. Whereas Shukla is openly biased against the current Indian gov.

Bold 1: Can't you read. Where did anyone assert that one person is completely right or wrong?

The point is - Dinny might be going with the Government policy of shifted PP14 (or new PP14). He may not even be lying ( as it is not upto soldiers to name points and places).

Bold 2 : Preach! They can be suspected of being Cronies as much as you suspect Ajai Shukla being a liar.

I simply don't care. Your struggle.

Bold 3:

Factual?
Government sources?

The government could've lied to Indian media and public to protect their face and save elections. Simple.

twineedle · Mar 7, 2021

lgnxz said:
Also the damming happened after the clash, isn't it? how's this even closely relevant to the very early start of your escalation in April?

What's the india's justification for entering the estuary and starting the buildup in early April? Hindsight 20/20 we do have the answer, which is trying to enter the pp14, which then finally China started to make its moves. Also notice how China merely send you protests when you do the buildup on the estuary, action from China happened after you first entering the pp14, which is on May. How's this China's fault then for the whole thing to happened?

Even then, after you cross the LAC in May, both sides reach an agreement on June 6 to deescalate. Why did you go into the pp14 AGAIN on June 15? Is this not a clear indication of who's really trying to change the status quo?

Finally, when you lost the June 15 clash, proven beyond doubt with the satellite images, casualities+hostages, and how you blockade yourself out of the area, where does this narrative of china trying to enter galwan mouth come from? Your imagination in trying to claim victory when there's none?

These simple questions put multiple holes into your narrative, think it through and answer them before you start making up another lies, ok?

THe damming clearly happened before the clash. the image you posted from may shows the river almost dry. In fact even the video shows it shallow enough to wade through, even though during the late spring and summer it floods most of the valley due to melting snow.

Anyway, funny how some are sticking with the India agressor narrative, while others are jumping back on the discredited Indai lost territory narrative.

twineedle · Mar 7, 2021

Xsizor said:
Bold 1: Can't you read. Where did anyone assert that one person is completely right or wrong?

The point is - Dinny might be going with the Government policy of shifted PP14 (or new PP14). He may not even be lying ( as it is not upto soldiers to name points and places).

Bold 2 : Preach! They can be suspected of being Cronies as much as you suspect Ajai Shukla being a liar.

I simply don't care. Your struggle.

Bold 3:

Factual?
Government sources?

The government could've lied to Indian media and public to protect their face and save elections. Simple.

So you are admitting that you consider anyone who goes against the Indian narrative is right, whereas anyone who supports the Indian narrative is wrong or lying regardless of their qualifications. And no Brig. RJS' statments did not corroborate Ajai Shukla, he simply stated what is even shown on Google(though i think the exact distance he cited was wrong)/

lgnxz · Mar 7, 2021

twineedle said:
THe damming clearly happened before the clash. the image you posted from may shows the river almost dry. In fact even the video shows it shallow enough to wade through, even though during the late spring and summer it floods most of the valley due to melting snow.

Ok, can you pinpoint the exact time of the damming happened then? Is it as early as April?

Merely damming river also cannot be equated with actual military buildup on the estuary and crossing to pp14 with full-geared soldiers. There has been many times when China has made attempt to deescalate it, like June 6 agreement, but you clearly didn't heed it.

twineedle said:
Once again, where did Brig RJS specifically say pp14 was? He simply says it was on the Indian side(which it is). Even the google line is to the east of the bend/pp14(though not 1 km)
If RJS' testimony is so accurate, why is everyone here discrediting Col Dinny's interiew? He also conducted patrols in ladakh(on Pangong lake) and much more recently.)

Ajai Shukla and a few others are simply twisting Brig RJS's words to show the lac several km from where India has always said it was, and from where literally every other source says, becasue the Brigadier simply says pp14 is behind the lac.

The fact that members here have to rely on vague statements in Ajai Shukla articles to claim India lost territory when Satellite imagery shows return to status quo ante shows how desperate they are to claim a Chinese victory

Who cares about random indian A or random indian B decide which is LAC. If you want to know what China perceives as its LAC, you ask China, and China considered pp14 as its own. Any other BS from, either if the LAC is until galwan mouth, or the LAC is behind pp14 are just your make believe.

Xizor · Mar 7, 2021

twineedle said:
Once again, where did Brig RJS specifically say pp14 was? He simply says it was on the Indian side(which it is). Even the google line is to the east of the bend/pp14(though not 1 km)
If RJS' testimony is so accurate, why is everyone here discrediting Col Dinny's interiew? He also conducted patrols in ladakh(on Pangong lake) and much more recently.)

Ajai Shukla and a few others are simply twisting Brig RJS's words to show the lac several km from where India has always said it was, and from where literally every other source says, becasue the Brigadier simply says pp14 is behind the lac.

The fact that members here have to rely on vague statements in Ajai Shukla articles to claim India lost territory when Satellite imagery shows return to status quo ante shows how desperate they are to claim a Chinese victory

Bold 1: READ THE ARTICLE

Its all there. Along with images that I picked from the website.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Bold 2: If Col Dinny is simply following government interpretation of PP14. HE isnt technically wrong? Is he?

Bold 2: Ajai Shukla hasn't twisted. This article was in response to Ajai Shukla's claim it merely corroborated it.

The original LAC is different from the current one. LAC for him exist a km into the Y junction.

LAC for you and your government exists at the Y junction.

Simple.

Bold 3: OH, this isn't Indian defence forum. Some members don't take BS.

twineedle · Mar 7, 2021

Xsizor said:
Indian media claims India lost territory. (which it did).

Last decade India lost territory. India also lost patrol rights.

Care to refute? Nah. You distort and beat around the bush to refute.

Why are you talking about what happened last decade? I thought this thread was about the current standoff. And there are far more Indian media outlets saying India did not lose territory, many of them fairly reputable. If Indian media is as reliable as you claim, that means you will have to take pro-gov/Modi media as seriously as anti-gov. sources.

And unlike media, satellite imagery cannot lie.

Oh, and the facts are, China tried to enforce a new lac in Galwan, Pangong , and other sectors, and failed. Instead it was forced to retreat and dismantle all new infrastructure, while India still has camps and infra in areas China claimed. But according to this forum, India lost 1000km(debunked by satellite images) so China won! lol

Xizor · Mar 7, 2021

twineedle said:
So you are admitting that you consider anyone who goes against the Indian narrative is right, whereas anyone who supports the Indian narrative is wrong or lying regardless of their qualifications. And no Brig. RJS' statments did not corroborate Ajai Shukla, he simply stated what is even shown on Google(though i think the exact distance he cited was wrong)/

So are YOU Admitting that anyone who goes against Indian narrative is wrong and anyone who toes Indian narrative is Right, regardless of their qualifications?

Yes he did. Read the article. Relax.

twineedle · Mar 7, 2021

Xsizor said:
Bold 1: READ THE ARTICLE

Its all there. Along with images that I picked from the website.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Bold 2: If Col Dinny is simply following government interpretation of PP14. HE isnt technically wrong? Is he?

Bold 2: Ajai Shukla hasn't twisted. This article was in response to Ajai Shukla's claim it merely corroborated it.

The original LAC is different from the current one. LAC for him exist a km into the Y junction.

LAC for you and your government exists at the Y junction.

Simple.

Bold 3: OH, this isn't Indian defence forum. Some members don't take BS.

Col. Dinny's interview was on Pangong, not Galwan. His interview was about Indian patrols on pangong, not Galwan.

Ladakh Flash Point

lgnxz

Junior Member

twineedle

Junior Member

Xizor

Captain

twineedle

Junior Member

twineedle

Junior Member

lgnxz

Junior Member

Xizor

Captain

twineedle

Junior Member

Xizor

Captain

twineedle

Junior Member