Ladakh Flash Point

Kakyan said:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1349973887568601088

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You mean like in this video? Its fresh today:

But there is something wrong with the explosions. Check out how the 'tank' exploded in the 0:23-0:24 mark.

Although the video quality leaves much to be desired. We can see a small 'projectile' approaching the 'tank.


Oddly enough. The 'tank' starts exploding before the 'projectile' impacts. Hard to see, but you have to keep pausing the video frame by frame to see it.


I may be just an internet fanboy. But I still know how real weapons explosions look like. They are all over Youtube. At least when the Chinese are demonstrating their weapons, they use the real things. Go check out their many firing drills and weapons demonstrations.

To me, this looks like a typical pyrotechnic special effect for some kind of theme park live show. Is this what this Indian drone swarm showcase is? A theme park live show?

Sardaukar20 said:

You mean like in this video? Its fresh today:

But there is something 'wrong' with the explosions. Check out how the 'tank' exploded in the 0:23-0:24 mark.

Although the video quality leaves much to be desired. We can see a small 'projectile' approaching the 'tank.
View attachment 67597

Oddly enough. The 'tank' starts exploding before the 'projectile' impacts. Hard to see, but you have to keep pausing the video frame by frame to see it.
View attachment 67598

I know how real weapons explosions look like. They are all over Youtube. At least when the Chinese are demonstrating their weapons, they use the real things. Go check out their many firing drills and weapons demonstrations.

To me, this looks like a typical pyrotechnic special effect for some kind of theme park live show. Is this what this Indian drone swarm showcase is? A theme park live show?

Click to expand...

At least China uses old Type 59s to test out their bombs...

Sardaukar20 said:

You mean like in this video? Its fresh today:

But there is something wrong with the explosions. Check out how the 'tank' exploded in the 0:23-0:24 mark.

Although the video quality leaves much to be desired. We can see a small 'projectile' approaching the 'tank.
View attachment 67597

Oddly enough. The 'tank' starts exploding before the 'projectile' impacts. Hard to see, but you have to keep pausing the video frame by frame to see it.
View attachment 67598

I may be just an internet fanboy. But I still know how real weapons explosions look like. They are all over Youtube. At least when the Chinese are demonstrating their weapons, they use the real things. Go check out their many firing drills and weapons demonstrations.

To me, this looks like a typical pyrotechnic special effect for some kind of theme park live show. Is this what this Indian drone swarm showcase is? A theme park live show?

Click to expand...

I see drones but where is the swarm? Also can someone confirm at 1:15 - 1:17... did the presenter say ‘pre-programmed targets‘? And why are there pre-programmed targets in a drone swarm demo where the swarm is supposed to act autonomously to seek, acquire and destroy the targets...

Mt1701d said:

I see drones but where is the swarm? Also can someone confirm at 1:15 - 1:17... did the presenter say ‘pre-programmed targets‘? And why are there pre-programmed targets in a drone swarm demo where the swarm is supposed to act autonomously to seek, acquire and destroy the targets...

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It's one of those "if he has I must say I do too!" that is BJP/bhakt India except this demonstration is using very inexpensive commercial drones and not a demonstration of swarming tech or even capable looking AI troop detection like claimed. The mass light show demonstrations done years ago in China with thousands of drones is a better civilian eyes demonstration of drone swarm.

Also using glued plywood tank "targets"? and random drone obviously remotely controlled dropping incendiary grenades onto "troop positions"? Cheaper than the cheapest bollywood stunts. Ineffective too. That anti-tank method won't penetrate WW1 tanks.

Honestly give me a few weeks and I can pull all of the stuff shown in the video off myself. Including assembling a plywood tank target. I bet this shit took months to organise and plan and involved dozens of people and several contractors. Also probably went over budget and got delayed but Jai Hinds will claim they are the first and only in Asia with "drone swarm teknullogeee" and maybe China will one day achieve mighty dupa Indian levels.

And right on queue with all that JF-17 discussion we've just had here.

That video is all kinds of sus, on top of the self-exploding plywood tank, they also showed a quick shot of a ‘precision’ munitions release that looks like whatever it dropped was tumbling end-over-end uncontrollably. Precision my backside!

Also, those drones manifestly do not have anything like the payload capacity to cause any of the explosions shown. Hell, they will barely have enough range to get very far just flying on empty tbh.

This all looks to be pure PR theatrics with zero operational usefulness.

The key to small drone combat operations is automation, because without that, and operating in a war zone without a function wifi and mobile network means any drones would need to have direct LoS to the operator to maintain connection otherwise.

In addition, if you want to use drones against a top tier military power like China, you can bet that they will be deploying jammers so direct control of drones in combat zones is likely to be a no-no to start with.

Although I am sure if that actually happened the Jai Hinds will accuse China of having put ‘backdoors/kill switches’ in their commercial drones instead of admit their own stupidity in thinking they can use off-the-shelf commercial drones for direct combat operations without risks or limitations.

siegecrossbow said:

J-10A/C, even when using Russian engines, participated in International exercises like Aviadart, Falcon Strike, and Shaheen, held their own against flankers, and intercepted U.S./Taiwanese planes. What has Tejas done to justify the exorbitant cost?

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On a seriously note. Im not familiar with the Tejas. Is it any good?

Drones swarm seems to be very poorly understood by Indian leaders. Some leaders said let there be drone swarm to management. Management proceeded to place orders from DRDO and all the usual suppliers. They shrugged. Management panicked. Well google it! they said. Google shows drone light shows with programmable LEDs carried by quadcopters. China's had that level of "drone swarm" tech showed to civilians back in 2016!

Further panic at BJP offices ensue.

Management proceeds to think military drone swarm means quadcopters too. Well how to we fool the bhakts? Why not set up some small explosives under wooden targets shaped like tanks and have a quadcopter controlled by Rapesh fly over it by itself and then drop a spray can sized Precision Instrument Surgical Strike (PISS) advanced ordinance onto said "tank" while the explosive inside detonates before the PISS hits the target.

FUnN Tash Tikk! thinks BJP demagogue Pajeet.

70 odd drones piloted by AI (Anit Ishit the new intern and his colleagues) dropping freefalling "guided smart weapons" onto "armoured" targets. Some rudimentary algorithm for terrain and object identification that's been on Shenzhen made toys since 2005. Voila. Drone swarm military technology.

I think the Indian military leadership actually do not know what drone swarm really is. This is proof. Drone swarm isn't exactly a mass of commercial quadcopters unless your enemy is literally a few militants with AKs. Even then those drones probably don't have what it takes to engage moving targets. Then again these same idiots also don't understand what transponders are or luneburg lens. They believe a Su-30 radar can detect even a clean fighter from over 100km away when a Su-30 (even the MKI) could barely detect a 1m^2 target at that range.

Gatekeeper said:

On a seriously note. Im not familiar with the Tejas. Is it any good?

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Well it's a pretty solid effort and it's India's first indigenous program to create a domesticated Mirage fighter equivalent but it is about 30 years later than they planned to have it by and is band aid patched up with MK.xyz upgrades that will give it an edge when it gets into service which they have committed to and have a handful of each of the initial variants in service. Those that are already in service recently are basically actual equivalents in capability and modernity to JF-17 block I and II with weaker missiles. Astra's not entirely in service and certainly a long time before in service as mainstay MRAAM in IAF. Even then the Astra's capability and specs don't look that great.

Oh and the much bragged about Uttam AESA radar looks like a primitive prototype of a poorer version of the J-10B's PESA. Smaller too and fed with much less power. Also India's first fighter AESA... as well as India's first domestically developed and manufactured AESA. So yeah won't be that much better than a bug riddled first gen J/APG-1, if it even matches that when it becomes ready.

Meanwhile JF-17 block 3 is to receive a third gen Chinese fighter AESA. Sure it is going to be wildly scaled down with fewer modules and less power than say a J-10C AESA but the block 3's AESA and block 3 will be in PAF service and flying missions before the Tejas MK.x with Uttam and Astra or Meteor/R-77M (if they get authorised) gets into IAF service. IAF and Indian leaders have the dilemma of letting domestic industry starve or purchasing more capable and even more affordable fighters abroad. Seems like they will tread a middle ground.