Ladakh Flash Point

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Sardaukar20

Sardaukar20

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India activated a key foundational pact with the US last month to acquire urgently needed high-altitude systems for soldiers deployed to forward areas along the Line of Actual Control in Ladakh who are likely to stay on through the winter as tensions with China continue.
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I thought India already negotiated a pullback with China? So now the story has changed, and India is still taking on the winter challenge?

Sources said that so urgent was the need that the US was requested to provide all possible stocks that could be spared. India has over 50,000 additional troops deployed in Ladakh to counter the massive PLA build up since early May.
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I thought the Indian Army soldiers were so tough? That they can take the cold better than 'pampered' PLA troops? All that European winter-wear buying spree is still not enough? What about buying winter wear from your old friend Russia? Are they not good enough for India? In an urgent situation, beggars can't be choosers right?

Having exhausted reserves, India has been hard pressed to find clothing and habitat systems for thousands of soldiers inducted at the heights. All Indian missions abroad have been tasked with a specific list of equipment that is required by the Army, which include boots, tents, sleeping bags, suits and socks. However, it has not been easy to find sources of supply that can quickly deliver products. Also, such large quantities of high altitude survival gear are not readily available in the colours suited for military use.
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I thought the Indian generals and the media have said that India is ready to take on China in the winter? I thought India have built all those fancy heated barracks? Isn't India a bigger superpower than China? All these basic infantry supplies should have been no issue. So now India the 'Great Superpower' is demanding the best winter military gears from around the world except from China. Then how is Atmanirbhar Bharat going so far?
 
Nobonita Barua

Nobonita Barua

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Sardaukar20 said:
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I thought India already negotiated a pullback with China? So now the story has changed, and India is still taking on the winter challenge?



I thought the Indian Army soldiers were so tough? That they can take the cold better than 'pampered' PLA troops? All that European winter-wear buying spree is still not enough? What about buying winter wear from your old friend Russia? Are they not good enough for India? In an urgent situation, beggars can't be choosers right?



I thought the Indian generals and the media have said that India is ready to take on China in the winter? I thought India have built all those fancy heated barracks? Isn't India a bigger superpower than China? All these basic infantry supplies should have been no issue. So now India the 'Great Superpower' is demanding the best winter military gears from around the world except from China. Then how is Atmanirbhar Bharat going so far?
Click to expand...
Could it be possible that they asked for these supplies & US told them "first sign this agreement"?
 
M

Mt1701d

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Sardaukar20 said:
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I thought India already negotiated a pullback with China? So now the story has changed, and India is still taking on the winter challenge?



I thought the Indian Army soldiers were so tough? That they can take the cold better than 'pampered' PLA troops? All that European winter-wear buying spree is still not enough? What about buying winter wear from your old friend Russia? Are they not good enough for India? In an urgent situation, beggars can't be choosers right?



I thought the Indian generals and the media have said that India is ready to take on China in the winter? I thought India have built all those fancy heated barracks? Isn't India a bigger superpower than China? All these basic infantry supplies should have been no issue. So now India the 'Great Superpower' is demanding the best winter military gears from around the world except from China. Then how is Atmanirbhar Bharat going so far?
Click to expand...
The pullback is only from the front... so the troops are still stationed nearby... like a few km away from the LAC

As for procuring the weather gear, they will blame the bureaucrats for not believing in their troops, spending unnecessary money and lining their own pockets.

Finally, for the generals and media saying they are ready to take on China in winter. Of course they are ready, how else do you think their troops are going to keep warm during the winter... if they don’t launch an offensive and capture the climate gear and heated bunkers from Chinese... I mean fighting or freezing to death is a no brainer. The Indians are after all the super-est of super great superpower that has ever existed in the history of the history of time itself!

You have educate yourself on just how superiorly magnificently excellent the GREAT INDIAN super-est super great superpower is!

Sorry, I couldn’t resist... I will show myself out...
 
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Bright Sword

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Nobonita Barua said:
Could it be possible that they asked for these supplies & US told them "first sign this agreement"?
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During the 1962 Sino-Indian war there was a "Knit for Soldiers" movement with housewives in each family buying wool, and knitting thick sweaters and donating these during a national collection drive. This was something like the way the British housewives donated their aluminum pots and pans for the aircraft industry.
The movement in India only partially worked because there wasn't that much wool around. Also hand knitting sweaters was laborious and it was difficult to maintain a standard size and quality. The PLA had quite smartly opted for cotton quilted jackets, and a similar movement sewing quilted jackets using sewing machines in China was hugely successful. The quilted jackets were also windproof and some were even partially water proof. The PLA used quilted fur lined caps with ear flaps. Far superior to the "monkey " caps used by India.
Traditionally Indians use shawls or blankets in winter and use turbans to cover their heads. In fact police in the poorer northern states like UP and Bihar frequently dispense with norms of uniform and revert to their traditional attire because they lack adequate warm clothing in the winter months too.
Tibetan garment traders anticipating the shortage of civilian winter clothing come down to the northern plains in India each winter and set up stalls marketing their sweaters and jackets. Traditionally they would sell hand made apparel.
Guess where they are getting their goods now ?
 
Mohsin77

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Sardaukar20 said:
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This is hilarious. Key quote from this Indian paper: "Sources said that so urgent was the need that the US was requested to provide all possible stocks that could be spared." .... Where are all those Wehrmacht-wannabe Indians that flooded this thread a few months back? What happened to your 'blitzkrieg' guys?

Jokes aside... I do feel some pity for the Indian grunts stuck in this theater... I know what -40 Celsius feels like, and it's not fun. Once you have all the kit you need, you can fight in -40. But proper winter kit is very expensive. Your need combinations of GoreTex, Down, Merino Wool etc. These are expensive materials, especially when the clothing design itself has to be technical. Look at the prices of Arcteryx shells and jackets and Icebreaker base layers etc. And the side whose soldiers are not kitted properly, they have no chance. It's not a matter of willpower, but combat effectiveness. It doesn't matter how motivated you are, you can't pull the trigger if your fingers are literally falling off due to frostbite.
 
hashtagpls

hashtagpls

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This may sound coldblooded of me but it would be better for peace if the Indians lost more than a few men to the elements if only to convey to the indian people, the folly of following Hindutva nazi-esque political movements.
Certainly, India and China can be great neighbours and even friends...after India casts off its jealousy and desire for white anglo approval.
 
Mohsin77

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hashtagpls said:
...after India casts off its jealousy and desire for white anglo approval.
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I don't think that's their modus operandi... That's not really how they think. Examine the behavior of Nehru with Mountbatten... or more recently (for those who follow cricket) look at how India's BCCI has behaved with the English and Australian cricket boards... It is no different than how they behave with their other neighbors in South Asia. While they are at the bottom, they flatter you into complacency... and as soon as they get a chance to come up on top, they dig your face in the dust and tell you how superior they always were.... I hate to say this, but Nixon (as f***ed up and racist as he was) and Kissinger, they both actually understood India better than most. Their declassified conversations on their dealings with India (although despicable in its racist language) does have a shred of credibility to it, if only as a valuable primary source on the subject.
 
hashtagpls

hashtagpls

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Mohsin77 said:
I don't think that's their modus operandi... That's not really how they think. Examine the behavior of Nehru with Mountbatten... or more recently (for those who follow cricket) look at how India's BCCI has behaved with the English and Australian cricket boards... It is no different than how they behave with their other neighbors in South Asia. While they are at the bottom, they flatter you into complacency... and as soon as they get a chance to come up on top, they dig your face in the dust and tell you how superior they always were.... I hate to say this, but Nixon (as f***ed up and racist as he was) and Kissinger, they both actually understood India better than most. Their declassified conversations on their dealings with India (although despicable in its racist language) does have a shred of credibility to it, if only as a valuable primary source on the subject.
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It's precisely that sort of disingenuous and petty behaviour of Indians as a people in politics and culture that makes me want to see them destroyed or dismembered as a viable state; anyone who has ever worked in a service industry can tell you the wonders of dealing with indian customers/clients. Whilst they serve you or look to your as their superior, they suck up to you; when you're in a service position they act like petty king shit, and it isn't an individual thing-no, this behaviour is far too common for it to be passed off as a few bad apples. This despicable behaviour is ingrained in the culture and the people and i do find it highly ironic that a culture that markets itself as being spiritual and reincarnation and karma etc, can be so petty and greedy and ungrateful.

I say ungrateful because China even after the '62 war made every effort to restore the spirit of 'India and China Are Brothers' (ironically said by Nehru as he betrayed Chinese negotiators with his Forward Policy), India's leaders and political establishment concocted a false history of being 'stabbed in the back' despite clear historic records showing the miscalculations of Nehru (Maxwell's book 'India's China War') in thinking he could fuck with China because India had only previously invaded Goa and the international community had done squat.

Someone earlier pointed out that China is treating India today the way China treated vietnam during the '79 war and throughout the 80s which is true; as Deng pointed out to Kissinger, China had to go to war with Vietnam to 'teach vietnam a lesson' ie control the Viets' imperialist tendencies throughout south east Asia. This was proven to be the correct move as even Singapore's Lee Kuan Yew approved, and some sort of conflict to control India's hegemonic tendencies must also be undertaken if only to serve as a warning against Hindutva miscalculation.
 
Mohsin77

Mohsin77

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hashtagpls said:
It's precisely that sort of disingenuous and petty behaviour of Indians as a people in politics and culture that makes me want to see them destroyed or dismembered as a viable state; anyone who has ever worked in a service industry can tell you the wonders of dealing with indian customers/clients. Whilst they serve you or look to your as their superior, they suck up to you; when you're in a service position they act like petty king shit, and it isn't an individual thing-no, this behaviour is far too common for it to be passed off as a few bad apples. This despicable behaviour is ingrained in the culture and the people and i do find it highly ironic that a culture that markets itself as being spiritual and reincarnation and karma etc, can be so petty and greedy and ungrateful.

I say ungrateful because China even after the '62 war made every effort to restore the spirit of 'India and China Are Brothers' (ironically said by Nehru as he betrayed Chinese negotiators with his Forward Policy), India's leaders and political establishment concocted a false history of being 'stabbed in the back' despite clear historic records showing the miscalculations of Nehru (Maxwell's book 'India's China War') in thinking he could fuck with China because India had only previously invaded Goa and the international community had done squat.

Someone earlier pointed out that China is treating India today the way China treated vietnam during the '79 war and throughout the 80s which is true; as Deng pointed out to Kissinger, China had to go to war with Vietnam to 'teach vietnam a lesson' ie control the Viets' imperialist tendencies throughout south east Asia. This was proven to be the correct move as even Singapore's Lee Kuan Yew approved, and some sort of conflict to control India's hegemonic tendencies must also be undertaken if only to serve as a warning against Hindutva miscalculation.
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It's really a sub-section of Indian society that's like that, and I think it's mostly based in certain politically powerful regions. But there are many other Indians who are great human beings. After all, Arundhati Roy is an Indian and she is one of my favorite people in the world. She's basically India's Chomsky. I hope Indians like her win out in the end.
 
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