Ladakh Flash Point


emblem21

Junior Member
Registered Member
I think you're exaggerating the situation.

Yes, India and the USA have serious issues.
But COVID is not actually that deadly, so they'll muddle through.
Ah the virus isn't necessarily the most lethal virus out there but it does do something that I believe is more important. It exposes the fail flaw in the two countries and have arguably shown that neither nation is willing to have the humility and honesty to address this flaw. This flaw is pride for the most part. Pride in that they saw China in the midst of the virus and instead of sympathy for there plight or even a helping hand, they choose to laugh and adopt a belief that this contagion will not reach them while looking down on China like a bunch of school yard bullies kicking the geek on the ground. When the pandemic did reach them due to there carelessness, instead of drawing up a real plan of attack and show China how it ought to be done (I mean as 'democracies', surely they must be more prepared then those dirty 'commies'), they choose to take the situation lightly (and in Trumps case, actively play it down to not cause a panic or so he says), hence when the virus got out of control and started to infect people in such speeds that is almost beyond ridiculous and kill more people in a week then the entire time that the virus manage to kill in China, they choose to point fingers at China and try to blame them for all sort of problems that ultimately comes off as a brat that didn't what they want. True they would muddle though eventually (however long that it takes), but they ultimately will take severe loses in terms of economy and loses in human life while doing so and ultimately come out weaker and more divided as a result, which isn't going to be a good combination in a recession/depression that is now under way.
 

Nobonita Barua

Junior Member
Registered Member
Warning from Global Times on playing the Taiwan card.

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The India military said it has been preparing for a "two-and-a-half" front war, referring to Pakistan, China, and internal insurgencies. Internal insurgencies include secessionist forces and terrorists. If India takes the move to support "Taiwan independence," China has every reason to support separatist forces in Northeast Indian states such as Tripura, Meghalaya, Mizoram, Manipur, Assam and Nagaland. China could even support the resurrection of Sikkim.

Oh after ages, finally.

No more "we firmly oppose....solemnly protest....."

However China should include Kashmir in that list. This will make things uncomfortable for their big aryan daddy who is feeling concerned about human rights.
 

Kaeshmiri

Just Hatched
Registered Member
Oh after ages, finally.

No more "we firmly oppose....solemnly protest....."

However China should include Kashmir in that list. This will make things uncomfortable for their big aryan daddy who is feeling concerned about human rights.
Mentioning Kashmir would rattle Indians much harder than mentioning any North Easter states. Thats for sure.
 

Inst

Senior Member
Less? It's was and remains the largest collection of lobotomized individuals on internet.



What on earth are you on about? Kshatriyas are an upper caste. Since when they become 'left and progressive'? Why on earth would they ally with Shudras, the lowest caste? Why would the Brahmins and Vaishyas accept a 'Kshatriya-Shudra alliance' lording over them? Why would non-Hindus give a shit about it? How will this alliance get to power? Why would anyone give a shit about 'Kshatriya-Shudra alliance' when there are numerous national entrance exams to chose the best candidate? How will they get to the 'same wavelength as China'? Why is this shit being upvoted?

I have never read something this inane in my entire life and that include a sizable amount of writings by Indians.
I actually took a recent look at Bharat Rakshak a while back, and their PLA watching thread was actually filled with grudging respect and envy.

As far as Indian politics being transformed, the underlying assumption is that the traditional social structure is not sustainable. The traditional domination pattern is a Brahmin-dominated one with some Kshatriya filling out some political roles and Vaishya / Bania taking economic roles. What I'm assuming is that if Kshatriya (traditional ruling class) move against Brahmin domination (priestly class), you'll see progress because the social values begin changing to something more progressive and practical.

The core issue with India as is is both extreme religiosity and the Brahmin domination; the religiosity drives the entire culture to Ah Q tendencies wherein they hide in their religion from negative realities and choose wishful thinking over confronting facts. Second, Brahmin domination refers to the fact that you have a traditional class whose role is to pull the wool over Indian eyes; i.e, the actual "productive" work of Brahmins has been little more than ideological justification for the social structure besides a bunch of spiritual nonsense, and they've spent their time getting paid for it.

If you toss Brahmins from the top of the caste hierarchy, you'll see a change in values and perhaps positive reform.

===

Just on numbers bases:

Brahmins -> about 5% of Hindu population
Kshatriya -> about 15% of Hindu population
Shudras -> about 50% of Hindu population
Dalits -> about 10% of Hindu population

Since I left out Vaishyas, it should be assumed they as a caste form about 20% of the Hindu population.
 

siegecrossbow

Brigadier
Staff member
Super Moderator

N00B

New Member
Registered Member
I actually took a recent look at Bharat Rakshak a while back, and their PLA watching thread was actually filled with grudging respect and envy.

As far as Indian politics being transformed, the underlying assumption is that the traditional social structure is not sustainable. The traditional domination pattern is a Brahmin-dominated one with some Kshatriya filling out some political roles and Vaishya / Bania taking economic roles. What I'm assuming is that if Kshatriya (traditional ruling class) move against Brahmin domination (priestly class), you'll see progress because the social values begin changing to something more progressive and practical.

The core issue with India as is is both extreme religiosity and the Brahmin domination; the religiosity drives the entire culture to Ah Q tendencies wherein they hide in their religion from negative realities and choose wishful thinking over confronting facts. Second, Brahmin domination refers to the fact that you have a traditional class whose role is to pull the wool over Indian eyes; i.e, the actual "productive" work of Brahmins has been little more than ideological justification for the social structure besides a bunch of spiritual nonsense, and they've spent their time getting paid for it.

If you toss Brahmins from the top of the caste hierarchy, you'll see a change in values and perhaps positive reform.

===

Just on numbers bases:

Brahmins -> about 5% of Hindu population
Kshatriya -> about 15% of Hindu population
Shudras -> about 50% of Hindu population
Dalits -> about 10% of Hindu population

Since I left out Vaishyas, it should be assumed they as a caste form about 20% of the Hindu population.
This is getting weirder still. The upper castes in India today have no link left to profession. They are done pretty well for themselves. Plenty of Brahmins in the army. Plenty of Kshatriyas running business and plenty of Vaishyas doing PhDs. Thanks to affirmative action, a sizable number of Dalits are also present in all these areas. Upper castes mostly don't fight each other. Inter-caste violence is mainly upper caste vs Dalits (with some overlap with Shudras).

Or did you think that this is 1650 AD and all this jobs are carefully segregated by caste?

Secondly Kshatriyas and Shudras, whatever that means, aren't suddenly 'progressive and practical'. They are just as Ah Q tier as the others. Google 'GD Bakshi' to find out what I mean. On the other hand liberal opposition can be found across the board. Some of the most vocal critics of GoI are Vaishyas. Some are Kshatriyas and Dalits. Some Muslims and some are Brahmin. Some are Sikh and Parsi.

So I ask again, why would anyone care about this bizarro 'Kshatriyas-Shudras alliance' when these roles are completely fluid today (profession wise)? How can Brahmins be 'tossed from the top of the caste hierarchy'? What fat lot of good will that do, given the current prime minister himself is from lower caste, and is out-brahimining Brahmins for last 6 years? This falls in the 'not even wrong' category.

Sorry to go off-topic, but I don't want the audience here to get such a bizarre view of India. Tell you what, you will actually be a perfect match for Bharat-Rakshak forum.
 

Inst

Senior Member
This is getting weirder still. The upper castes in India today have no link left to profession. They are done pretty well for themselves. Plenty of Brahmins in the army. Plenty of Kshatriyas running business and plenty of Vaishyas doing PhDs. Thanks to affirmative action, a sizable number of Dalits are also present in all these areas. Upper castes mostly don't fight each other. Inter-caste violence is mainly upper caste vs Dalits (with some overlap with Shudras).

Or did you think that this is 1650 AD and all this jobs are carefully segregated by caste?

Secondly Kshatriyas and Shudras, whatever that means, aren't suddenly 'progressive and practical'. They are just as Ah Q tier as the others. Google 'GD Bakshi' to find out what I mean. On the other hand liberal opposition can be found across the board. Some of the most vocal critics of GoI are Vaishyas. Some are Kshatriyas and Dalits. Some Muslims and some are Brahmin. Some are Sikh and Parsi.

So I ask again, why would anyone care about this bizarro 'Kshatriyas-Shudras alliance' when these roles are completely fluid today (profession wise)? How can Brahmins be 'tossed from the top of the caste hierarchy'? What fat lot of good will that do, given the current prime minister himself is from lower caste, and is out-brahimining Brahmins for last 6 years? This falls in the 'not even wrong' category.

Sorry to go off-topic, but I don't want the audience here to get such a bizarre view of India. Tell you what, you will actually be a perfect match for Bharat-Rakshak forum.
Actually, castes are still linked to privilege.

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Likewise:

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When I'm talking about Brahminical privilege, I'm not talking about a rigid caste implementation that was never actually the fact in India. I'm talking about the actual privilege wherein the Brahmins have taken up the class roles beyond caste roles to gain access to good jobs and education at the expense of OBCs.

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When I criticize Brahmin domination, the two points would be a naive idealism; i.e, a willingness for theory (our great Democracy, our great nationalism) to triumph practice and actual realities (see Mao's "On Practice" and the fact that India is a shithole). The second would be a caste-based selfishness; for instance, I recall asking a Brahmin friend in GoI to do what Chinese people did during the coronavirus crisis, which was to volunteer and put themselves in the line of infection to deal with the coronavirus crisis.

Response? "Nope, not part of my Dharma, Kshatriya job, etc etc".

===

In reality, what a lot of Chinese posters are arguing for is that India needs a revolution to change its society. I am just being more concrete about how such a revolution can come; i.e, the cultivation of Kshatriya-casted intellectuals who by their right of rulership have the same sense of responsibility for their society the same way Confucian Literati and now the Communists did in China, as well as the progressive tendencies of Communists in China*. Remember, traditional India is fundamentally a Brahmin edifice, not necessarily a Kshatriya edifice. For a revolution to succeed, you'd need the support of the working classes, which is why I'm saying you need Shudras to make such a power grab succeed.

And when I talk about a Shudra-Kshatriya alliance, well, let's face it, it's impractical right now, because Kshatriya are upper caste and Shudras are the true lower caste; they are only not the lowest of the low because of the existence of Dalits. But there are many Shudra Kshatriya jatis; i.e, Shudra jatis that rebranded themselves as Kshatriya. What you need is a sort of historical awareness that many Kshatriya jatis are just glorified Shudras, and an acknowledgment of this latent historical sympathy.

Moreover, you have to realize that in any real revolution what you see in reality is a conflict within elites, i.e, elite competition gets out of control and lower elites take a stab at upper elites. Since Kshatriya are upper caste to begin with, and therefore have access to power and privilege (to an extent), they are in position to make the elite competition element of revolution work.

*And that's what I mean by Kshatriya-Shudra would be on the same wavelength as Chinese elites; i.e, the Chinese within the Indian framework would be at best considered "degenerate Kshatriya". Our historical tradition (and you seem to be from India) is that in the Shang-Zhou transition, the priestly domination of the Shang was broken by Zhou warriors, who eventually themselves became intellectuals, adopting a doctrine of class responsibility (Literati, Shi, etc) over the rest of society.

It is hegemonic and Orientalist to impose a Chinese model of development onto India, but to me it seems the best way forward for the Indians. When you look at Brahmin intellectual and political supremacy, what you see is the Hindu rate of growth, what you see is Hindu nationalism, what you see is almost 50 wasted years since Independence in which the Chinese have outgalloped India in the race for development. It is possible that India as is can, within its present social and political framework, overcome its challenges and modernize, but it is also possible that the system of Brahmin supremacy will impede India's development indefinitely. Or in other words, Indian political and intellectual elites have failed, so it's better for them to get new political and intellectual elites, and the Indians already have a caste that's almost ready-made for the job.
 
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