Ladakh Flash Point

siegecrossbow said:

Unfortunately I think this is the official confirmation we are waiting for. I actually agree with the Indians now on one issue: the PLA soldiers didn’t get the recognition they deserve. I know that China suppressed the information to prevent escalations but look at the situation now. There is no assuaging the Indian position.

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Figaro said:

Well he said mostly the same immediately after June 15 as well, so nothing really surprising from him. But one surprising thing is he said the Indians ambushed first and caused some PLA soldiers to fight to the death, which is definitely new and that the main Galwan battle was the Chinese counterattack. If this is the case, I have no idea why the Chinese government did not take a much more forceful tone against the Indians and provide evidence that it was an Indian attack first that then led to the Chinese counterattack, which inflicted the brunt of the casualties in the whole standoff. Either Hu Xijin's account is incorrect, which is possible, or the Chinese government made a huge PR blunder, which is also possible. And if just one PLA soldier did indeed die, why withhold his name or acknowledge his loss when it was the direct consequence of Indian aggression ... this logic makes absolutely no sense to me considering the PLA does indeed announce casualties for conflicts.

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plawolf said:

I don’t know about that. There is a massive difference between official recognition and public recognition.

Publicly announcing casualties is an American tradition, but even the Americans started suppressing casualty reporting in recent years, with banning of images of returning flag draped caskets etc.

Public recognition has never really been a Chinese tradition, as such it’s a little unreasonable to apply (dated) American standards to the Chinese military.

How China honours its war dead is down to China to decide. But while they might not make a show and dance about it like the west and Indians, I am certain any PLA dead would be given all due honours and their family properly looked after. Could the Americans, never mind the Indians, say the same about the families of their war dead?

What’s more important to a grieving family, a publicity clown show or having your kids put through college and your housing costs handled?

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Maxef208 said:

Video must've been recorded and could settle all disputes.

If photo or video evidence exists, maybe there's something China doesn't want to show? That or China purposefully withheld evidence and accusation and even deaths on their part trying to keep the situation from escalating. Announcing war dead usually gets people enraged and wanting vengeance as we saw on the Indian side. China doing it now definitely makes their side of story look weaker, but it may be for this exact purpose of getting the populace angry. I think if visual evidence of the encounter exists, we're going to see it released soon.

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siegecrossbow said:

Pilots who have died due to aircraft crashes get recognition in China, as did medical personnel who died combating COVID-19.

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Figaro said:

But the Indians announced the names of the 20 dead though? Even if they lost 50, at least 20 of them got recognition. If the PLA really suffered any dead and the government did not disclose their names (esp when India did), then I think it is pretty unfair to the dead. People in China should know their names, just like the people in India know the name of that CO Babu guy who was killed by a rock. If some soldiers really did fight to the death like Hu Xijin said, they should be rightfully honored as martyrs ... but this has evidently not been the case, pointing to 2 outcomes : either Hu Xijin is incorrect or the Chinese gov screwed up yet again. What difference does it make announcing your figures if India already hates you for massacring their soldiers anyway?

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plawolf said:

And how many of those 20 Indian dead would anyone other than their family and friends remember by now?

It’s a meaningless 15 minute of fame hollow gesture at best, and you put yourself in the stupid position of having to change policy if and went casualty figures massively expand, like the Americans found in Afghanistan and Iraq.

As for not reporting the numbers of dead, well that was to help de-escalate. Because if the Indians lost 20 and the Chinese lost only 1 or 2 as is the most likely case, there is a very good chance the Indians would not be able to handle that and so would try to engineer another clash to try to even the numbers up.

China does not want a war with India, but it will have little choice if the Indians keep pushing their luck.

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siegecrossbow said:

Pilots who have died due to aircraft crashes get recognition in China, as did medical personnel who died combating COVID-19.

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plawolf said:

None of those are combat deaths. In combat, announcing how many dead and wounded you suffered would yield invaluable intel to enemy forces, as it would allow them to do far more accurate battle damage assessment then would be possible from just their own intelligence sources.

China doesn’t want to have to suddenly change policy as soon as the fighting gets heavy and casualties start to mount as that will open themselves up to far more effective criticism.

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Figaro said:

But at least they got some recognition, however short it lasted. What purpose does it serve the Chinese to not give the names of martyrs??? They weren't some undercover special operatives like the CIA or the Russian Wagner group. Please explain why regular soldiers who died should not be given proper recognition by the state? Do note that if they died, the Chinese gov has not even announced any death, let alone the identity of the deceased.

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