Ladakh Flash Point

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Sardaukar20

Sardaukar20

Captain
Registered Member
Brumby said:
In a land campaign in that part of the world, the fundamental issue would be logistical and not technological. A large army needs to be supplied to sustain operations.
Just like the Chinese, the Indians would certainly target all Chinese choke points, key infrastructures like bridges et al. Why would the risk of destruction be unique only to the Indian side?
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Off course the Indians would target infrastructure and choke points on the Chinese side. No competent military commander would ever dismiss that. The PLA are quite serious on infrastructure and logistics, just like what you recommended. PLA commanders are no fools, they will anticipate these things and have plans for the Indian moves on their vulnerable points. Those PLA military build ups are not just for show. They are there for the defense of China from a rampaging Indian offensive which will include strikes on PLA assets.

On the logistics war, China can readily supply its troops with locally produced materiel from one of the world's biggest MIC, supported by one of the world's best infrastructure systems. India, on the other hand has a MIC far inferior to South Korea, and has one of Asia's worse infrastructures. Worse still, India needs to import a large portion of their army materiel. They even need to import sleeping bags for god's sake. India's 'sexy munitions' are pretty much all imported. Things such as: M982 Excalibur shells, 155mm artillery shells, Spike missiles, AGM114 Hellfire missiles, Kornet ATGMs, modern 125mm tank rounds, S-400 missiles, etc. We haven't even gone to spare parts and support equipment.

The problem for India is that war with China is not a war on the same scale as Pakistan or Kashmir insurgents where imported 'sexy munitions' always look awesome. Any attack that involves killing PLA troops to grab Chinese territory is not something China can easily forgive. China is a going to give them a full scale conventional war that can drag-on indefinitely. War attrition will punish India many times more than it can punish China. The best historical example is the Falklands war. Argentina have some cool imported weapons that can and did hurt the UK forces. But these weapons were soon expended and towards the end of the war, the Argentinians could just barely sustain the war anymore.

The best case scenario for India is that a small portion of their sexy weapons score some damage on the PLA forces. But that is all they are going to get after a humiliating defeat at the hands of one of the world's real military superpowers.
 
Brumby

Brumby

Major
Brainsuker said:
Do you know what he means with Chinese Chock Points? It is a narrow path between mountains. What target that India wants to attack in there? If they wants to attack, they will have to move into a snake like route narrow path that can be targeted by Chinese Artillery elements.
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To disrupt physical movement of supplies - what else? Have you ever heard of air strikes?
 
siegecrossbow

siegecrossbow

General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Brumby said:
In a land campaign in that part of the world, the fundamental issue would be logistical and not technological. A large army needs to be supplied to sustain operations.
Just like the Chinese, the Indians would certainly target all Chinese choke points, key infrastructures like bridges et al. Why would the risk of destruction be unique only to the Indian side?
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His analysis assumes that China will be on the defensive. Massing Indian infantry in such a small area does imply that India wants to push an offensive.
 
Mohsin77

Mohsin77

Senior Member
Registered Member
siegecrossbow said:
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I found this analysis (starting 3:55) from an ex PLA military officer of the Nanjing military district (pre-reform) and there are actually a lot of solid analysis from a pure military standpoint. Way better than the usual chest thumping rants from both Indian and Chinese amateurs.
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Can someone please summarize this in English for the rest of us?
 
plawolf

plawolf

Lieutenant General
siegecrossbow said:
His analysis assumes that China will be on the defensive. Massing Indian infantry in such a small area does imply that India wants to push an offensive.
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Not necessarily, well at least I hope not for India’s sake.

Trying to launch an offensive into Chinese mainland territory is just pure lunacy. Not even the US would dare such a move.

India’s only actual edge in the boarder region is one of geography. To attack into Chinese territory would mean Indian would not only give up that natural advantage, but also make it their own enemy as they would have a hell of a time getting troops and supplies across the Himalayas unopposed, never mind in the face of PLA attacks.

Indian boarder force massing is largely done as a PR stunt for domestic consumption, and also betrays India’s logical weakness.

It knows it does not have the support infrastructure in place to rapidity deploy forces into the region in the event of an emergency or actual combat like China can, which is why it needs to pre-deploy forces before hostilities have started.

Although even that is a stupid tactic as per-deploying such large number of forces only serves to stretch India’s already overtaxed logistical support capabilities and also give China more targets to hit if hostilities occur.

A rational and sane India commander would instead choose to defend in depth and force the PLA to come to them, thus putting more logistical burden on the PLA while at the same time easing his own.

But then India is betrayed by its own weakness and thus the central importance that the board geography plays in their defence planning.

Basically even the die hard Indian Jai Hinds know they stand no chance against the PLA in an open field, that is why they cling so desperately to every last tiny piece of land on the disputed boarder, and why they are both engaging in salami slicing against China, and deeply paranoid of China doing the same to them. Basically to them, even tiny gains in the boarder is of strategic importance because of how central that geography is to their whole defence plans, and just how untenable their position would be with it.

If India does force China into another war, I do not think China should, nor will it unilaterally pull back to pre-hostility positions. Instead I think that unless China plans to shatter India as a state then and there, it should instead seize the entirety of the mountainous highlands until its forces are literally looking down at the plains of northern India.

It should them dig in and build roads and tunnels right through the mountains until it can drive entire armies through the mountains with little difficulty.

That will effectively hang a giant executioner’s axe over New Delhi and much of Northern India. If the Indians do not radically adjust their thinking and attitudes towards China, strike 3 will be their last strike.
 
R

reservior dogs

Junior Member
Registered Member
plawolf said:
Not necessarily, well at least I hope not for India’s sake.

Trying to launch an offensive into Chinese mainland territory is just pure lunacy. Not even the US would dare such a move.

India’s only actual edge in the boarder region is one of geography. To attack into Chinese territory would mean Indian would not only give up that natural advantage, but also make it their own enemy as they would have a hell of a time getting troops and supplies across the Himalayas unopposed, never mind in the face of PLA attacks.

Indian boarder force massing is largely done as a PR stunt for domestic consumption, and also betrays India’s logical weakness.

It knows it does not have the support infrastructure in place to rapidity deploy forces into the region in the event of an emergency or actual combat like China can, which is why it needs to pre-deploy forces before hostilities have started.

Although even that is a stupid tactic as per-deploying such large number of forces only serves to stretch India’s already overtaxed logistical support capabilities and also give China more targets to hit if hostilities occur.

A rational and sane India commander would instead choose to defend in depth and force the PLA to come to them, thus putting more logistical burden on the PLA while at the same time easing his own.

But then India is betrayed by its own weakness and thus the central importance that the board geography plays in their defence planning.

Basically even the die hard Indian Jai Hinds know they stand no chance against the PLA in an open field, that is why they cling so desperately to every last tiny piece of land on the disputed boarder, and why they are both engaging in salami slicing against China, and deeply paranoid of China doing the same to them. Basically to them, even tiny gains in the boarder is of strategic importance because of how central that geography is to their whole defence plans, and just how untenable their position would be with it.

If India does force China into another war, I do not think China should, nor will it unilaterally pull back to pre-hostility positions. Instead I think that unless China plans to shatter India as a state then and there, it should instead seize the entirety of the mountainous highlands until its forces are literally looking down at the plains of northern India.

It should them dig in and build roads and tunnels right through the mountains until it can drive entire armies through the mountains with little difficulty.

That will effectively hang a giant executioner’s axe over New Delhi and much of Northern India. If the Indians do not radically adjust their thinking and attitudes towards China, strike 3 will be their last strike.
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Good post. I don't think the Chinese side should fight unless they are ready to go in and break up India into smaller units. Once you fight a war like that, you leave an India deeply hostile to China and ready to bring in the U.S. If the U.S. will get involved one way or another, it is better for India to be broken up into many different groups. The Chinese will take back South Tibet as well as taking Kolkata to open up a port at the Bay of Bengal. Pakistan will reclaim Kashmir. China will arm the many insurgent groups and allow them to claim large swath of the country. A U.S. armed smaller India will be fighting a proxy war with its neighbors armed by China. Obviously, this is not ideal for China as it faces the wrath of the U.S. at this point, but sometimes, wars are fought not at the time of your own choosing.
 
B

Brainsuker

Junior Member
Registered Member
Rubeena said:
But due to this tension, China has also increased the size of the Army, till now the Army of China is on front line.
What about the Bangong lake, the China Army has increased the strength their also.
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Well, I write the post based on the PLA Ex-General's video. The only data that I have are based only the online news that quoted on the forum like in here or PDF. And based on those news, whatever they're valid or fake, India put 25.000 soldiers in Ladakh, while China has two brigades on the front line. Both brigades are in separated location. I forget where. But I think the second one put in the east.

The ex-General must have more data than me. And his analyst is based only on theory if India decided to use aggressive military means to attack China position. Remember, as it is in the time of Galwan Incident, China has taken all the land that they claims near Ladakh, and India side position themselves on the area that is not claimed by China. So, if India want to reclaim the area that they claim, they have to attack. Or else, China will become the de facto owner of the claimed territory for unforeseeable future.
 
R

Rubeena

New Member
Registered Member
Mohsin77 said:
To be continued. I'll do some digging for citations, rather than just speaking on my own. Will create a new thread if I find them and ping you.



No it makes 'AI' independent of the network. Autonomous targeting removes dependence on network updates.
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AI cannot be independent of networks. If that is the case , how the AI will work so extensively?
 
R

Rubeena

New Member
Registered Member
Brainsuker said:
We must remember about an old China news in this forum, about PLA training. Where the red side (good guy) have to fight against a superior blue side (bad guy). In the news, a Chinese general lose his whole Division just after the Blue Side throw them a nuclear tactical missile; because he (red General) put his division in more tight formation.
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What is the PLA training we are referring to? Any one has any update on the same?
 
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